The Championship - A Farce?

[Daniella]

That will be from a Reading perspective then.

I believed your point at the time tredder, but the amount of internationals we have now speaks for itself really. They were better than everyone else, but weren't proven players then, they are now.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

It's called playing as a team, the sole reason Reading won promotion.

so you don't think a team that achieved a record points tally, scored 99 goals and ended up with a +67 goal difference might just have been a little better than someone like Bristol City, on course to finish below 80 points - over 25 points behind what Reading achieved - who have only scored a fraction over half the number of goals Reading scored and whose goal difference is only +2?

Still, given that you are a QPR fan, having suspect judgement should be taken as read I suppose.

[Tredder]

Hahnemann - Unwanted by Fulham and loaned to Rochdale
Murty - Bought from York for 700k and consistent Scottish international born in Middleboro
Sonko - On a free from Brentford
Inga - Ex Torquay, Brighton, Wolves and Brentford player bought for 100k
Shorey - Ex Leyton Orient and number one left back in England
Convey - Established USA international, unproven in England
Harper - Ex Arsenal reserve
Sidwell - Another Arsenal reserve player that was loaned out to Brenford and Brighton
Little/Oster - ex Burnley and Bolton / Far too many to mention
Kitson - Bargain basement buy from Cambridge
Doyle - Chanced signing that worked out doubley well.

Only one has gone to another 'better' club, the rest still play and are getting a little undone, i would suggest that work ethic and a great team spirit were major contributors to the title win and not a case of the better players in the championship at the time.

No doubting the achievement recorded but i would just argue the fact that it was down to far more talented players that were miles better than the rest of the division

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Only one has gone to another 'better' club, the rest still play and are getting a little undone, i would suggest that work ethic and a great team spirit were major contributors to the title win and not a case of the better players in the championship at the time.

No doubting the achievement recorded but i would just argue the fact that it was down to far more talented players that were miles better than the rest of the division

so it doesn't strike you as a little odd that the organised teams with a good work ethic that currently lead the championship are performing nowhere near the level of the Reading team you seem to be claiming they are on par with talent-wise?

I mean, if it was just a case of being organised and working hard, as attributed to Stoke and Bristol City, and their players are not really any worse than the Reading team of 2005/6, shouldn't those two be somewhere towards approaching the same level of performance?

I'd actually say a better comparison would be the hard working and organised Watford of that season, who continued to be organised and hard-working in the premiership, but whose players were blatantly not good enough.

[Ian Royal]

Hahnemann - Unwanted by Fulham and loaned to Rochdale
Murty - Bought from York for 700k and consistent Scottish international born in Middleboro
Sonko - On a free from Brentford
Inga - Ex Torquay, Brighton, Wolves and Brentford player bought for 100k
Shorey - Ex Leyton Orient and number one left back in England
Convey - Established USA international, unproven in England
Harper - Ex Arsenal reserve
Sidwell - Another Arsenal reserve player that was loaned out to Brenford and Brighton
Little/Oster - ex Burnley and Bolton / Far too many to mention
Kitson - Bargain basement buy from Cambridge
Doyle - Chanced signing that worked out doubley well.

Only one has gone to another 'better' club, the rest still play and are getting a little undone, i would suggest that work ethic and a great team spirit were major contributors to the title win and not a case of the better players in the championship at the time.

No doubting the achievement recorded but i would just argue the fact that it was down to far more talented players that were miles better than the rest of the division

It's not like our players have many options of better teams to go to. Our team ethic and spirit were massive contributors to our win in such style, as was a large number of the squad playing towards the top of their game rather than the usual 2-3 in a team at any given time.

That doesn't change the fact that we had some exceedingly good players who, were just too good for the championship.

Shorey, Little, Kitson, Sidwell, Ingimarsson, Hahnemann, Harper, Doyle, Convey were all too good for the championship that season and all bar Kitson and Convey were easily too good for the championship the next season and they weren't because they spent the majority of the season injured so weren't fit for the conference let alone anything better.

[Tredder]

They were good in a winning side, they developed together but you cannot deny that they were obviously not good enough unless they wouldn't have spent their career in the lower divisions and sold for little or no money, i don't think the players mentioned were TOO good for the championship, take them out of the pond and i think most would just about hold their own but they worked well in a unit, being the obviously jealous QPR i'm wrong but that's just what i think.

[Ian Royal]

They were good in a winning side, they developed together but you cannot deny that they were obviously not good enough unless they wouldn't have spent their career in the lower divisions and sold for little or no money, i don't think the players mentioned were TOO good for the championship, take them out of the pond and i think most would just about hold their own but they worked well in a unit, being the obviously jealous QPR i'm wrong but that's just what i think.

The first part would work as an argument if it weren't for plenty of players who become greats "slumming" it in the lower leagues at the start of their careers.

Just because a lot of th ebest players these days are plucked from their mother's tit and picked for a destiny of playing at Man U or Chelsea doesn't mean greats can't start at the bottom and work up.

[Tredder]

I'm not saying that players don't improve with age, but the majority of those players were either untried or didn't cut it with their previous team, i'm boring myself here but the choice of players worked for Coppell despite many fans shaking their heads at him plunging Brentford and Brighton for livestock.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

They were good in a winning side, they developed together but you cannot deny that they were obviously not good enough unless they wouldn't have spent their career in the lower divisions and sold for little or no money

Not good enough for what? Those players finished 8th in the premiership last year and are odds on to stay up this year too. Organisation alone couldn't achieve that. Yet that is your claim - that's "the sole reason Reading got promoted".

Unless you'd like to backpeddle on that claim and admit you were wrong.

Organisation can get a team like Watford or Derby, full of reasonable but not great players, promoted, but will never do it in any kind of style.

, i don't think the players mentioned were TOO good for the championship, take them out of the pond and i think most would just about hold their own but they worked well in a unit, being the obviously jealous QPR i'm wrong but that's just what i think.

whether they were too good for the championship is debatable, but they all can individually at least do a job in the premiership. Most promoted teams need at very least 4 good signings to have any chance of staying up. The fact that we didn't need wholesale changes (or indeed any changes at all) indicates the team was far stronger than teams in the championship usually are, even if the players weren't necessarily better than the better players at other championship clubs.

That's really the point - it isn't about the Reading players in that team being a class above anything else in the division, it's that being able to field a team where everyone player, 1 to 11, was as good as the best players from any other team, meant that the others couldn't compete.

I'm not saying that players don't improve with age, but the majority of those players were either untried or didn't cut it with their previous team

The only players in that list who couldn't cut it with their previous team are Harper and Sidwell, whose previous team was Arsenal. Failing to make it at Arsenal is hardly indicative of being a journeyman pro.

[papereyes]

Kitson - Bargain basement buy from Cambridge

Was still youngish when signed.
Fantastic goal-scoring record in the Championship (better than a goal every other game?)
Decent scoring record when fit in the Premiership.

You cherry-pick one fact, I cherry-pick others.

I find myself agreeing with the Rev's argument. Further, I am usually sceptical of arguments of 'not good enough' as there's many, many other reasons why a player might not do well at a club other than talent. This is especially true of young, raw players.

But it would also be naive to say that being well-organised and well-prepared didn't have a major role to play. IMO, its the lack of those two things that has been really obvious (relatively) this season and our (relative) slump in form, performances and results has naturally followed.

[Ian Royal]

Kitson - Bargain basement buy from Cambridge

Was still youngish when signed.
Fantastic goal-scoring record in the Championship (better than a goal every other game?)
Decent scoring record when fit in the Premiership.

You cherry-pick one fact, I cherry-pick others.

I find myself agreeing with the Rev's argument. Further, I am usually sceptical of arguments of 'not good enough' as there's many, many other reasons why a player might not do well at a club other than talent. This is especially true of young, raw players.

But it would also be naive to say that being well-organised and well-prepared didn't have a major role to play. IMO, its the lack of those two things that has been really obvious (relatively) this season and our (relative) slump in form, performances and results has naturally followed.

Strap confirmed his stats earlier in theseason I think, they'll have slipped a bit, but in the Championship I'm pretty sure it showed as just better than a goal every 2 games.

[Victor Meldrew]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Let's not get above ourselves eh after just 2 seasons EVER in the top flight and about 6 years EVER in the next division down.
Stoke have had many seasons playing at the top level and Bristol City have had time there as well.
I think any success of promoted clubs will depend upon their buying policy and if they don't spend most of the £30million well they may struggle.

[Platypuss]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Why do you think Stoke don't have the infrastructure to support prem status?

[Stooper]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Why do you think Stoke don't have the infrastructure to support prem status?

Was thinking the same.

Good stadium, great youth policy, financial clout.

Think they'll be a good addition, as will Hull.

[Daniella]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Why do you think Stoke don't have the infrastructure to support prem status?

Same reason as we don't. Not enough fans, not enough money.

[Coppelled Streets]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Why do you think Stoke don't have the infrastructure to support prem status?

'greed. It riled us when idiots in the Premiership were saying just that about us!!

[The whole year inn]

Bristol City now have a goal difference of 0. Still top though

[Platypuss]

Bristol city and stoke in the premiership? Jesus, how the hell did this happen?
Neither have a side anywhere near capable of playing up here....or the infrastructure to sustain any prem status.

Why do you think Stoke don't have the infrastructure to support prem status?

Same reason as we don't. Not enough fans, not enough money.

Certainly seem to be able to spend money in the Championship against the current cllimate..
They have a very decent fanbase and a bigger stadium than us.

Anyone would think you were just making it all up as you went along.

[PEARCEY]

Bristol City now have a goal difference of 0. Still top though

Absolutely staggering stat....indicating they are very very fortunate to be top. I dont know enough about their squad so speaking out of ignorance(no change there then) but if we stay up I hope they come up.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Bristol City now have a goal difference of 0. Still top though

Absolutely staggering stat....indicating they are very very fortunate to be top. I dont know enough about their squad so speaking out of ignorance(no change there then) but if we stay up I hope they come up.

they've also scored 8 less than bottom of the table Colchester.

Currently, on points per game, WBA are on target to win the division, with a staggering 77 points.