Coppells a waste of space

[ScottishRoyal]

Haven't read the thread so this may have been mentioned (apoligioes if so) but...

... the main reason we need him to stay on is that he will be able to keep a large group of the squad at the club, and our current squad represents the best chance we have of pormotion next year. If Coppell were to leave though, a large number of the current squad would leave and we we need to completely rebuild the squad in the mould of a new manager and this would be a major setback.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

There is no answer to why Coppell chose not to sign them.

Yes there is and he gave them at the fans forum. You may not agree with the answers (and even he may not agree with his decisions now) but he was honest enough to give them.

Thats being a little bit picky.

I think what SKDD is trying to say is that there isn't really any logical justification for the decisions that Coppell took. He gave his reasons but they don't really stand up as good enough.

It's a bit like (well it's not but I'll use the analogy anyway) jumping infront of a train because you think you're pretty flixible and will probably just bounce off. It's obviously a stupid reason for doing it and most sane people can see that it's a very flawed arguement for doing so.

Coppell had his reasons. They were wrong. He's admitted it, others seem a little less happy to accept it.

Yes No Logical answer.

We didn't sign O'Neil cause he thought Little would be out for 2 months?

That's not a reason not to sign someone better than what we have. We shouldn't have a manager who clearly makes excuses not to sign players.

We should have signed O'Neil because Little was out for 2 months and because he was better than our centre mids. Instead we refused to sign O'Neil leaving us hoping an ageing, injury prone right winger would be ok.

It's the we'll be ok attitude that got us relegated.

[The Rouge]

I have a lot of time for Floyd's views as, apart from knowing him, he goes to pretty much every game and can watch a game of football without having tabloid 'he's great/he's sh*t' views. Whilst appreciating what he is saying, I have a differing view on this for a number of reasons.

- However much we watch our team, we don't know what goes on within the club. We don't know what bids the club made. Thankfully, it is the Reading way to not disclose bids we don't have to. If we bid £6m for this player and £5m for that player and both clubs said no straight away - we wouldn't necessarily get to hear about it. The fans wouldn't appreciate players coming in that don't improve the team, so no complaints there. Is Coppell the kind of guy who would come out and say 'Well we tried to get x and we tried to get y'?? - no he's not, so what would that mean, it would mean he would keep quiet, say the buck stops with him and he would get blamed for not making enough changes/failing to get players in.

- Coppell said 'Maybe I put too much faith in this set of players' - yes maybe he did, but the fact is most of us would have done. If most of them performed close to the great levels shown last season we wouldn't have even been involved in the relegation mix-up.

- Do I believe he has the intelligence to learn from any mistakes? Yes I do. He may decide a fresh pair of eyes is needed at number two/within the coaching set up to make sure he can do this - that would be up to him...

- With Coppell being there for quite a while there are a number of things we may take for granted that may disappear.....the measured post-match words.....the non-haranguing of the referee....the purchase of bargains....the ability to get the performances out of players that Pardew couldn't.....the general integrity with how he conducts himself.....etc etc - when those things are gone with the appointment of the next manager or the one after that, we will miss them...

- There is a bit of a mystery why more clubs that fall from the Premier League don't do better on their first season in the Championship. A lot of people are baffled.... could it be the habit of losing is hard to break.... a losing mentality??.....could it be that the mental and physical application of both the staff and the players is not up to the task of taking on extra games, the extra miles, the extra physical and mental wear and tear... - who knows...? (This should probably be a seperate thread) No one knows the answer to this, if I had to guess I would say these things are factors but not as big a factor as the big change in playing staff. I think part of the reason our first season in the Premier League was so good, was that we hardly made any changes from the Championship winning team and the players all knew each others games well. Cue a couple of players like Hunt and Doyle really raising their games and hey presto we are sitting high up the league with confidence/lack of pressure in abundance.

Change is required from a financial viewpoint when you get relegated to the Championship - to balance the books/to keep individual player ambitions happy - it will happen - but the extent to which it happens can differ. If the players leaving can be kept to a minimum, and the players coming in can gel fairly quickly then I personally think you have a chance - so 4 or 5 departing, 2 or 3 coming in plus James Henry maybe and another youth/reserve teamer being given a chance, may result in automatic promotion. 8-9 first team players out and 8-9 first team players in, in my mind, would not add up to a genuine attempt on automatic promotion. New managers have different takes on current playing staff and often want to bring in their own players - so what is your best bet of keeping change to a minimum? Keep your manager.

For the reasons outlined, other than the fact I like Steve Coppell, I want him to stay.
Cheers
TR

[Southbank Old Boy]

- However much we watch our team, we don't know what goes on within the club. We don't know what bids the club made. Thankfully, it is the Reading way to not disclose bids we don't have to. If we bid £6m for this player and £5m for that player and both clubs said no straight away - we wouldn't necessarily get to hear about it. The fans wouldn't appreciate players coming in that don't improve the team, so no complaints there. Is Coppell the kind of guy who would come out and say 'Well we tried to get x and we tried to get y'?? - no he's not, so what would that mean, it would mean he would keep quiet, say the buck stops with him and he would get blamed for not making enough changes/failing to get players in.

Coppell has come out and said he thought about bidding for x and y but changed his mind. So the first half of your point is a little meaningless. I totally agree that we don't get to know the half of what goes on behind our closed doors, and thats generally a good thing.

You also say fans wouldn't appreciate players coming in that don't improve the team. I can't imagine many fans moaning if we'd signed a midfielder or two so that we didn't have to play something like 8 different right wingers to try and cover for Little's injury. Coppell signed the likes of Gunnarsson, Bikey, Sodje, Bennett, Kebe, Rosenoir, Cisse, Fae and Soel. None of them were better than what we had. The players we were looking at would've been first team players and to be fair he's paid a lot of money to make the kind of decisions you say the fans might not like at times.

- Coppell said 'Maybe I put too much faith in this set of players' - yes maybe he did, but the fact is most of us would have done. If most of them performed close to the great levels shown last season we wouldn't have even been involved in the relegation mix-up.

Some of us would've done. I think you might've missed a hell of a lot of debate on here about our squad not being good enough and the need for a few new players. Coppell even said it himself on a number of occassions. It was obvious we needed two or three players, and again, the management are paid a hell of a lot of money to realise that.

- Do I believe he has the intelligence to learn from any mistakes? Yes I do. He may decide a fresh pair of eyes is needed at number two/within the coaching set up to make sure he can do this - that would be up to him...

He should have learnt from them yes. He hasn't so far after being a manager for 20 odd years. I hope he can learn from them. Does he have the heart and desire to do it at Reading though thats the question? I agree a new set of eyes looking at the problem might help. Like a lot of things in football, you need to keep it fresh to maintain any momentum.

- With Coppell being there for quite a while there are a number of things we may take for granted that may disappear.....the measured post-match words.....the non-haranguing of the referee....the purchase of bargains....the ability to get the performances out of players that Pardew couldn't.....the general integrity with how he conducts himself.....etc etc - when those things are gone with the appointment of the next manager or the one after that, we will miss them...

If Coppell does leave it will be a shame that we'll lose one of the most calm managers about. I much prefer his way of going about things than that of a Warnock or Mourinho or a Fergie. Sometimes I think he needs to have a bit more umph about him, but his integrity has been very very good for our club and I'm grateful for that.

[brendywendy]

hopefully, seeing as we are not ok, copps will realise the "we'll be ok " attitude isnt going to work
if he doesnt feel up to that, he wont be back next season

7-10 players out, including players that made very little/no contribution to the team this season, and the elderly
3-5 players in- top chamionship quality-a couple young, a couple who are big and strong with bags of experience
with that, as long as we keep marcus, bikey, doobs, sonks, cisse,rosenior, murts, marek, harps, convey, little, and three of the 4 strikers
start to blood, henry, pearce, and karacan



as long as coppell has it in him to wield the scalpel skillfully, and dump some long serving people i reckon we'll be ok

[The Rouge]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time...

Many of your points are valid, perhaps a couple differences op opinion and you have not been needlessly argumentative - but you didn't comment on what I see as the biggest point - the one about changes to the playing staff....

[The Rouge]

...and I beg to differ on some of the players you listed. I personally think Bikey has been the best player of the last 1/4 season and it wouldn't surprise me (if hs stays) if he is player of the season next year...

[brendywendy]

anyone got a link to the transcript of the fans forum?
i cant get on the team board unless its on threads ive already posted on

[Southbank Old Boy]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time...

With all due respect that is absolute rubbish. Most of the debate about adding players was done around July/August and Dec/Jan when we had a chance to do something about it.

Many of your points are valid, perhaps a couple differences op opinion and you have not been needlessly argumentative - but you didn't comment on what I see as the biggest point - the one about changes to the playing staff....

I ran out of steam! It was quite a long post afterall.

There will be changes. There will need to be. We'll see a lot of the rubbish we've gambled on (Halls, Sodje etc) being shown the door. I can't see that changing whoever we get in as manager. Those that think they're heading back off into the Premiership won't be swayed by a new manager either. The ones who I think might be are perhaps the inportant ones for the spirit of the club and to maintain some continuity, namely Harper and Kitson. Conversly a change in manager might mean that Sonko starts afresh and isn't likely to shown the door. I'm not sure on that one.

Freshening up the squad needs to be done. Keeping some core players is also going to be important. I'm not sure changing the manager is a good or bad thing in regards to that though.

[Southbank Old Boy]

...and I beg to differ on some of the players you listed. I personally think Bikey has been the best player of the last 1/4 season and it wouldn't surprise me (if hs stays) if he is player of the season next year...

Not sure if that's in response to my comments or brendy's. I'm guessing mine.

Bikey has come on leaps and bounds, and has been one of our better players (he still drifts off to sleep and gets caught out of position too much for a centre half - probably why Coppell didnt stick by him as much as some wanted) but when he was signed he wasn't better than what we had. That was more the point, we had to sign him because otherwise we didn't have enough in the squad.

We didn't do the same for a right winger or central midfielder this time round and we started the season with Gunnarsson, Harper, Fae and Cisse as Premiership central midfielders. Two of them had never kicked a ball in English football and one wasn't good enough to command a starting place the previous season. As for the right wing, well I won't go there.

[Platypuss]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

[Alan Partridge]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

[brendywendy]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

yeah, even i have got to smile at that

but at the time it was still only 50-50, its only with hindsight that you became 100% certain.......

[Southbank Old Boy]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

yeah, even i have got to smile at that

but at the time it was still only 50-50, its only with hindsight that you became 100% certain.......

You speak for you and your RTG pals!!!!!!

There were plenty who could be sat here shouting I told you so and where pretty 100% in their opinions at the time

[The Rouge]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time...

With all due respect that is absolute rubbish. Most of the debate about adding players was done around July/August and Dec/Jan when we had a chance to do something about it.

Respect noted! I dont think it is all rubbish though as the point stands about expecting the players to perform better than they did... - and the point stands that we don't know how many failed bids were made..

Many of your points are valid, perhaps a couple differences op opinion and you have not been needlessly argumentative - but you didn't comment on what I see as the biggest point - the one about changes to the playing staff....

I ran out of steam! It was quite a long post afterall.

There will be changes. There will need to be. We'll see a lot of the rubbish we've gambled on (Halls, Sodje etc) being shown the door. I can't see that changing whoever we get in as manager. Those that think they're heading back off into the Premiership won't be swayed by a new manager either. The ones who I think might be are perhaps the inportant ones for the spirit of the club and to maintain some continuity, namely Harper and Kitson. Conversly a change in manager might mean that Sonko starts afresh and isn't likely to shown the door. I'm not sure on that one.

Freshening up the squad needs to be done. Keeping some core players is also going to be important. I'm not sure changing the manager is a good or bad thing in regards to that though.

Yes but the Halls/Sodjes etc wont make any difference as I am talking about first team players... - point taken on Harper/Kitson - I personally think, apart from being closely aligned with RFc, both of those players could have amazing seasons in the Chamipionship if they are pulling on the hooped jersey come August...

Squad freshening is one thing - and a thing we are agreed on - but huge changes to the first team is something else - something I persnonally believe makes it very difficult to bounce back up at the first time of asking....

[brendywendy]

- most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

yeah, even i have got to smile at that

but at the time it was still only 50-50, its only with hindsight that you became 100% certain.......

You speak for you and your RTG pals!!!!!!

There were plenty who could be sat here shouting I told you so and where pretty 100% in their opinions at the time[/quote]

but pretty 100% isnt actually 100% though is it.

and i wasnt agreeing with him, -just trying to find any possible way to justify his comments


and loads of people are saying i told you so
i have agreed with them, they did, definatley
Ive left the RTGB,in shame, and ignominy,
and can be seen occasionally paraded through the streets of reading town, where i am pelted with rotten fruit, and small rocks. and rightly so

though some of the people who didnt need hindsight this time were also probably saying the same things before the championship season, and our 1st in the prem-perhaps it was that that made us immune to the sagacious warnings this time round

either way i wont be ignoring you next time round, no siree

[Southbank Old Boy]

Respect noted! I dont think it is all rubbish though as the point stands about expecting the players to perform better than they did... - and the point stands that we don't know how many failed bids were made..

We don't know the details, but we know that Coppell decided that he didn't want to add players to his squad because he felt happy with what he had. We have to take him on his word with that, I see no reason why he'd lie to make himself look bad.

Yes but the Halls/Sodjes etc wont make any difference as I am talking about first team players... - point taken on Harper/Kitson - I personally think, apart from being closely aligned with RFc, both of those players could have amazing seasons in the Chamipionship if they are pulling on the hooped jersey come August...

Squad freshening is one thing - and a thing we are agreed on - but huge changes to the first team is something else - something I persnonally believe makes it very difficult to bounce back up at the first time of asking....

So, if we change the manager, who do you think will go who won't if Coppell stays? I can't see there being any real difference apart from the previously given Harper and Kitson, and even if Coppell stays I wouldn't be surprised if they went. None of our players are really likely to turn down a move back to the Premiership even if Coppell is still here and they think they owe him some kind of loyalty. This is the real life of professional football afterall, not some gushy Amercian teen movie.

[kwik-silva]

I keep wanting to read this thread.. but the posts are so long

[papereyes]

SBOB,
I take your point on what Coppell has said - but I also think he says the bare minimum re: transfers. He has admitted he should have done a bit more to try and get people in in January, but that is with the gift of hindsight at players form from Jan-May... - most of the debate on here about the squad had been with the gift of hindsight - a totally different proposition to making the call at the time.

[mathematically_safe]

football365 letters page.

some good points here...

Is Coppell Allergic To Success?
As Reading began to slip it was none too difficult to foresee the outcome for me at least. As a Crystal Palace fan, no-one holds more of my affection than Steve Coppell and no other group was more qualified to predict their relegation. I'm not saying it wasn't tight, but the gradual slip down the league made Derby's defeat too little, too late in an spookily parrallel story to the one he set at Palace. We got higher, FA Cup final and third place, and dropped slightly slower, but in the same way, when the rot set in it was just left to fester.

Instead of Sidwell, we lost Bright and Wright, both had the same effect and both times it was left unmedicated. Our smash-and-grab approach often saw sides losing before they knew anything about it, whereas Sidwell's careful dictation of play meant Reading saw far more of the ball in the right areas and the clever movement of Doyle and Kitson could be found more easily. This season the long ball became heavily employed and the trap door beckoned. It's Coppell's 'big' signings that did it in for us too - for Emmerson Fae replacing Sidwell read Marco Gabbadini for Ian Wright. Losing your trump card is difficult for any side to take, but it's the loss of ethos, in both cases, that killed the teams. A lack of enthusiasm to regenerate and a perverse duty to see something through to its failure. But, as we all know, expect the worst and that's what you'll get.

The man is not a loser - his achievements at both these clubs will certainly not be repeated anytime soon - he is a poor winner. At the tail end of last season his enthusiasm drained, he talked openly about not enjoying management and about next season's struggle. Everyone thinks the dour image is just that, an image, but it seems more deep rooted - an aversion to success.

He came back to Palace twice more to rescue us when we were down out of a duty no other manager would have contemplated. In our worst spell he worked for nothing and, without overexaggerating, secured the future of our club. We were on the precipice; he worked miracles with a central defensive partnership of a 39-year-old Andy Linighan and Hayden Mullins, kept a disciplined dressing room and eeked out the best form of Morrison and Forsell's careers. He was booted out within seconds of Jordan's arrival - ironically claiming there was no room for sentimentality in football.

Reading fans will know what he means to us - his reception on his return really did make the hairs on your neck stand up - and we, in turn, know what he means to them. He gave fans the chance to dream, yet oddly enough, he never encouraged it. He's more of a man then people outside of these two smallish clubs can understand, he really does care about the fans but the reason for his failures remain more of an enigma than his blueprint for success.