Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

155 posts
User avatar
Silver Fox
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 26857
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 10:02
Location: From the Andes to the indies in my undies

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Silver Fox » 28 Sep 2008 10:54

Piers Morgan British football has seen many similar acts of sportsmanship - Leicester letting Nottingham Forest score an uncontested goal in the rematch following the game postponed by Clive Clarke's half-time heart attack; Paolo Di Canio passing up an open goal when he saw Everton's keeper on the ground injured; Robbie Fowler appealing to the referee not to give a penalty after he had been fouled by David Seaman. And so on. The list is long and honourable.


Err, no it isn't, you've mentioned both eamples anyone can think of Piers

Blue Heart
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 08:34
Location: Reading

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Blue Heart » 28 Sep 2008 10:57

Coming from a profession where dishonourable,disreputable,irresponsible and sensationalistic is commonplace, Piers Morgans comments are somewhat rich. Very few journalists in my opinion can be applauded for impartial, objective, fair or even truthful reporting. There have been many occasions when reporting has been selective, taken out of context and even manipulated so please don't bang on about "doing the decent thing" Piers :shock: You really are in the wrong profession to start moralizing.

Sarah Star
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3186
Joined: 18 Feb 2008 12:29

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Sarah Star » 28 Sep 2008 11:08

This whole argument rests on the Reading players being able to know exactly what was going on, knowing for sure that no goal had been scored despite several attempts going close amongst the group around the goal, and being able to get together and collectively decide that they should offer a goal to Watford...that would in all probability been waved away by the official anyway.

Piers Mrgan is just jumping on the bandwagon because he sees an easy chance to stir things up - that's his job, and he's good at it.

User avatar
floyd__streete
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8326
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 18:03
Location: ARREST RAY ILSLEY.

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by floyd__streete » 28 Sep 2008 11:11

Well who would have thought it, vindictive nonsense spouted by a Daily Mail columnist :roll: . Happily, I use Piers Morgan as a moral compass in that I tend to take exactly the opposite view of this sour little man in almost everything he says, so reading this little rant makes me feel even more comfortable in my view that Reading players should not be held responsible for the mistakes of officials at Watford last Saturday.

As for calling our players cheats - that is something that Morgan himself would know, having been humiliatingly sacked from his job as Mirror editor for allowing fake pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by British army soldiers. CredibiLOLity.

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 12471
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Dirk Gently » 28 Sep 2008 11:36

The day we start to accept lectures on ethics and morals from the likes of Piers Morgan is the day hell freezes over.


Friday's Child
Member
Posts: 215
Joined: 30 May 2004 15:45
Location: Verwood, Dorset.

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Friday's Child » 28 Sep 2008 12:08

Right, so Piers Morgan's article is well written, until the last sentence:

"There's also another, longer, list of the divers, the 'Hand of God' merchants, the con artists and the managers and players who accept a goal they all know never happened. Saint Steve and his Reading team just joined the second list. And lost all rights to the word 'decent' for ever".

So, lets go through this moral blacklist and be consistent - and by the way, I do agree that the game should be replayed, and that Coppell et al could have displayed a better degree of honesty both during the game and afterwards - however, lets add:

1. Anyone who ever dives for a freekick and doesn't tell the ref that it was unjust
2. Anyone who gets a freekick or penalty for a 50/50 challenge and accepts it
3. Anyone who deliberately handballs and gets away with it
4. Anyone who spots a handball from their team but doesn't declare it
5. Anyone who goes into a one on one with a goalkeeper and goes "looking" for contact to get a penalty
6. Anyone who buys a football club backed by assets from unjust or illegal business activities
7. Anyone who takes down a player in the final third of the pitch when the opposition are breaking and it is a clear goal scoring opportunity, to get a yellow card but knows there is another defender hence not a professional foul by the laws of the game.
8. Anyone who leaves their studs in with the intention of potentially hurting a player and providing unfair advantage for the remainder of the game
9. Anyone shepherding the ball into the corner to waste time at the end of the game and prevent a game of football from occurring
10. Anyone who timewastes a goal kick and takes a yellow card "for the team" to provide unfair advantage....
11. Anyone who stands in front of a goalkeeper, blocking his vision for freekicks et al but officially not "interfering with play in an offside position".

and.... ( I could go on )

12. Any manager or player for a team that notices and accepts these above 11 items while playing, and doesn't point it out to the referee.

There you go, that is pretty much every player and manager in the global game covered. Back to you, Piers.

Rev Algenon Stickleback H
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3187
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 20:15

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 28 Sep 2008 12:30

Schards#2 The principles around our goal and Man Utd's penalty are identical. Not every player would know the decision is definately wrong but some would.

No one would have entertained the idea of United decining the penalty. The only difference is that our circumstances were more unusual.


this has been my view on it. Dozens of goals are scored every year as a result of deliberate cheating that every knows it is deliberate cheating, yet nobody says the teams should let the other team score.

Scoring through cheating is acceptable, but things resulting from refereeing mistakes aren't, it seems. How many dodgy penalties, for example, draw far more criticism of the ref for giving it than for the player who dived?


I would agree that it would have been the sporting gesture to have let Watford equalise, but that doesn't make it unsporting to not do so, and certainly not cheating. Boothroyd's comments pretty much indicate that he wouldn't have told Watford to let Reading equalise if it had gone the other way, which is why there's no criticism of Reading from Watford FC.

User avatar
earleyroyal
Member
Posts: 591
Joined: 17 Feb 2007 21:38

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by earleyroyal » 28 Sep 2008 12:38

UpNorth That little s**** Piers Morgan has jumped on the bandwagon today inthe Mail on Sunday with a personal attack on Steve Coppell for accepting the phantom goal. He calls him a cheat.

A thoroughly nasty piece

Careful Saint Steve your halo is slipping

Steve Coppell is, so everyone assures me, 'the most decent man in British football'. The Reading manager's supposedly a bastion of radiant goodness amid the festering hellhole of corruption, sleaze, greed and evil that comprises the modern-day Premier League.

Well, forgive me for not joining in the universal cap-doffing to Mr Coppell. Because after that ridiculous phantom goal his side were awarded against Watford last week, I'd say Saint Steve's halo has just slid several yards off his head and into the gutter.

I didn't think I'd see anything more disgraceful in sport this year than the then-England one-day cricket captain, Paul Collingwood, allowing Kiwi Grant Elliott to be run out at The Oval after Ryan Sidebottom smashed him to the ground. But this was worse.

Not to put too fine a point on it, Saint Steve, old son, you're a cheat. Because you and your players all knew the ball hadn't gone in the goal. In fact, you all knew it hadn't gone anywhere near the bloody goal, which is why none of you displayed even a flicker of celebration. And the 'decent' thing to have done would have been to let Watford score immediately at the other end to atone for the biggest cock-up in refereeing history. But no, you did nothing.

You insist that at half-time, soon afterwards, the 'goal' was never discussed in the Reading dressing room. Really, Saint Steve? Not one person even mentioned the fact that your 'goal' had missed the post by four YARDS? What a load of old Coppells.

'We are not the conscience of the game,' you explained afterwards. 'Right from when you start playing football at school everyone says play to the whistle. We play to the whistle.' What a thoroughly 'decent' observation. Not.

Your players seem equally mystified by all the criticism being heaped on their dense little craniums. Stephen Hunt whined: 'We can't do anything about it. It's not our mistake, but what can you do? You can't say, "No, ref, that wasn't in".'

Er, actually you can, Stephen. That's exactly what you can say. It's called sportsmanship. Mystifyingly, even the opposition manager, Aidy Boothroyd, defended Reading's behaviour, saying: 'If someone stops you in a car park and gives you a present you don't say 'No', do you?'

'We are not the conscience of the game,' you explained afterwards. 'Right from when you start playing football at school everyone says play to the whistle. We play to the whistle.' What a thoroughly 'decent' observation. Not.

Your players seem equally mystified by all the criticism being heaped on their dense little craniums. Stephen Hunt whined: 'We can't do anything about it. It's not our mistake, but what can you do? You can't say, "No, ref, that wasn't in".'

Er, actually you can, Stephen. That's exactly what you can say. It's called sportsmanship. Mystifyingly, even the opposition manager, Aidy Boothroyd, defended Reading's behaviour, saying: 'If someone stops you in a car park and gives you a present you don't say 'No', do you?'
Where was he looking? Referee Stuart Attwell gave the goal

Yes, Aidy, sometimes you do. Let me try and help you: if someone stops you in a car park and gives you a bag of cash you know they just stole from 14,000 people, you'd probably say 'No', wouldn't you? It's what 'decent' people do.

Reading knew that goal was nicked, and they knew that the 14,000 people watching would suffer directly from the theft because it might mean they lose the game, which would, therefore, increase their chances of Watford's relegation this season, which in turn would cost their club millions. So, yes, sometimes you just say 'No' to presents.

But once Reading had passed on the immediate chance to do the 'decent' thing and let Watford score, then the next 'decent' thing to do would have been for Saint Steve to announce at the end of the game that he wanted a replay. But he didn't.

Only two days later did he finally issue this half-hearted response: 'If the authorities decide a replay is the correct thing to do then I've got no objections. I'm not sure there's a precedent, but if that's what people want then I'm happy to do it.'

Oh, but there is precedent, Saint Steve. I was at the Arsenal- Sheffield United FA Cup game in 1999 when Marc Overmars and Kanu conspired to chase down a throw-in back to the away side following play being stopped through injury, and scored.

Most Arsenal fans were as outraged as the Blades by this blatant piece of cheating by our own players. And to his immense credit, Arsene Wenger instantly demanded, and secured, a replay within minutes of the final whistle.

British football has seen many similar acts of sportsmanship - Leicester letting Nottingham Forest score an uncontested goal in the rematch following the game postponed by Clive Clarke's half-time heart attack; Paolo Di Canio passing up an open goal when he saw Everton's keeper on the ground injured; Robbie Fowler appealing to the referee not to give a penalty after he had been fouled by David Seaman. And so on. The list is long and honourable.

There's also another, longer, list of the divers, the 'Hand of God' merchants, the con artists and the managers and players who accept a goal they all know never happened. Saint Steve and his Reading team just joined the second list. And lost all rights to the word 'decent' for ever.


Before anyone tries to analyse this/write a lengthy response:

1. It appeared in the Daily Mail, the biggest-selling children's newspaper in the country.
2. It was written by Piers Morgan, who knows nothing about football, or indeed very much at all from what I can gather.

Of course the article is total crap, if Piers Morgan thinks we're cheats then I couldn't give a flying fcuk, in fact that's made me feel even more secure in the knowledge that we're not. Cheers then.

User avatar
RoyalBlue
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 11953
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 22:39
Location: Developed a pathological hatred of snakes on 14/10/19

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by RoyalBlue » 28 Sep 2008 13:57

Royal Boil I haven't read all of this thread, (I got into the third screen before I gave up) but I'd like to say the following:

1. By accepting that "goal" we've joined the cheats of this world. I always thought we were better than that. It's now making me start to wonder whether SHunt was actually to blame for THAT incident.
.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


'Cheats' by accepting the officials decision albeit the officials got it wrong? :roll: :roll:

What's that make every other team that accepts penalties that shouldn't have been awarded or goals that were clearly offside? Maybe every team should review the match video at half-time and then set about retrospectively putting right every wrong decision of the first half. As for second half mistakes, clearly they will need to be rectified next time the teams meet.

Sorry but IMO anyone who suggests the 'put right the officials' mistakes' approach is a naive and idealistic fool!

And what term do you reserve for those players/teams who dive to win penalties etc. etc.?


User avatar
brendywendy
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 12060
Joined: 04 Aug 2006 15:29
Location: coming straight outa crowthorne

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by brendywendy » 28 Sep 2008 18:07

if colin oxf*rd, olly holt, piers morgan, adrian durham, and mike parry are the peopled arrayed against us, i can safely say that we are on the right side of whatever divide there may be.

This whole argument rests on the Reading players being able to know exactly what was going on, knowing for sure that no goal had been scored despite several attempts going close amongst the group around the goal, and being able to get together and collectively decide that they should offer a goal to Watford...that would in all probability been waved away by the official anyway.


SA Star has said it all perfectly for me, this seems to be the only rational way to assess what happened.

how many players were in the box? how many had a good view?
how many could have been certain that a goal wasnt scored somewhere in the mele, at some point?
how many of those players were going to call a conference in the centre circle to discuss the incedent and come up with an appropriate response duringt the game?

papereyes
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6027
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 18:41
Location: “The mother of idiots is always pregnant”- Italian proverb

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by papereyes » 28 Sep 2008 18:15

I'm voting it our goal of the season

FACT

Gordons Cumming
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5300
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 10:52
Location: All Good Things Come To An End

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Gordons Cumming » 28 Sep 2008 18:22

papereyes I'm voting it our goal of the season

FACT


Without a doubt........... certainly the most talked about.

Soul Man
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 17:27

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Soul Man » 28 Sep 2008 19:00

Gordons Cumming
papereyes I'm voting it our goal of the season

FACT


Without a doubt........... certainly the most talked about.

Yeah! gets my vote for goal of the season


User avatar
From Despair To Where?
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 25958
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: See me in m'pants and ting

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by From Despair To Where? » 28 Sep 2008 19:02

Piers Morgan really should stick to insider dealing, it's what he knows best.

User avatar
winchester_royal
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11160
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 21:32
Location: How many Spaniards does it take to change a bulb? Just Juan.

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by winchester_royal » 28 Sep 2008 19:03

Holt has probably got an account on this board....

My money is on Strap or Finerain.

Jackson Corner
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4896
Joined: 23 Nov 2005 00:55

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Jackson Corner » 28 Sep 2008 19:47

"Oh, but there is precedent, Saint Steve. I was at the Arsenal- Sheffield United FA Cup game in 1999 when Marc Overmars and Kanu conspired to chase down a throw-in back to the away side following play being stopped through injury, and scored.

Most Arsenal fans were as outraged as the Blades by this blatant piece of cheating by our own players. And to his immense credit, Arsene Wenger instantly demanded, and secured, a replay within minutes of the final whistle."

Hang on Piers I remember this game Steve Bruce took the Utd players off in disgust and Arsenal still did not let them score a goal. Wenger then offerd to replay the match at Highbury not Brammel lane where it should have been, giving Utd a better chance of winning plus not having the agro of traveling all the way down to London for a mid week game. Hardly a good example of sportsmanship.

Royal Boil
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 13:18
Location: On Camilla's Bum

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Royal Boil » 28 Sep 2008 23:16

RoyalBlue
Royal Boil I haven't read all of this thread, (I got into the third screen before I gave up) but I'd like to say the following:

1. By accepting that "goal" we've joined the cheats of this world. I always thought we were better than that. It's now making me start to wonder whether SHunt was actually to blame for THAT incident.
.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


'Cheats' by accepting the officials decision albeit the officials got it wrong? :roll: :roll:

What's that make every other team that accepts penalties that shouldn't have been awarded or goals that were clearly offside? Maybe every team should review the match video at half-time and then set about retrospectively putting right every wrong decision of the first half. As for second half mistakes, clearly they will need to be rectified next time the teams meet.


Sorry but IMO anyone who suggests the 'put right the officials' mistakes' approach is a naive and idealistic fool!

And what term do you reserve for those players/teams who dive to win penalties etc. etc.?


There's a world of difference between a controversial decision where nobody really knows what's going on and it takes a slow motion replay to highlight what actually went on, and what happened at Watford, where everyone who was anywhere near the incident knew exactly what had happened. The point I was trying to make is that - and yes, call me naive if you like - I thought we were better than that. Obviously we're not, nor are a lot of our fans, and that was what disappointed me. We're now officially as bad as the various divers and cheaters that everyone else deservedly hates.

Rev Algenon Stickleback H
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3187
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 20:15

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 29 Sep 2008 00:09

Royal Boil We're now officially as bad as the various divers and cheaters that everyone else deservedly hates.


even if that's so, we are getting criticised far more heavily then they are. For all the moans about Ronaldo's diving, for example, we've yet to see anyone come out and say that Man Utd should let the other team score or that a game should be replayed.

Benefitting from an incorrect decision is not cheating unless you've conned the ref into making the wrong decision.

Niko
Member
Posts: 452
Joined: 25 Jul 2004 23:06
Location: Boules to that!

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Niko » 29 Sep 2008 00:13

Rev Algenon Stickleback H Benefitting from an incorrect decision is not cheating unless you've conned the ref into making the wrong decision.

Exactly. to demand we disregard the referee's decision is to undermine any "respect the ref" initiative currently in place.

Royal Boil
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 13:18
Location: On Camilla's Bum

Re: Ah Mr Holt- we've been expecting you...

by Royal Boil » 29 Sep 2008 00:28

And what about self respect?

155 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Keysfield and 382 guests

It is currently 20 Jul 2025 15:00