Why are the South Americans so good?

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Dirk Gently » 21 Jun 2010 12:13

havoc
Magnus
Dirk Gently Read this and all will be revealed :


Not reading all that. Can you summarise in a couple of sentences?



South Americans are gr8 coz they all grow up in favelas and cramped ghettos so have to hone their skillz coz they're playing in tight/small areas with no room just to hoof the ball about.


kinda pisses on the arguments above ^ that we're shit coz we built over all our parks.


Yeah, that sums it up nicely - plus the fact that the above games of 50 or so a side in cramped spaces led to a situation led to a culture which regarded individual skill and tricks as being worth more than actual goals scored. The heroes are the skilful ones, not just the ones who score the most.

In Brazil, Le Tissier >>>>>>> Shearer, unlike here.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Hoop Blah » 21 Jun 2010 12:27

I don't think any of that addresses the point re why they've been so successful in the first couple of rounds at this WC.

That culture and the whole South American football culture hasn't changed dramatically, and as Mags said, they've always had an abundance of hard nosed dirty defenders to go with this cliched skilled street urchins running rings round the European cloggers image this thread is building.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Seal » 21 Jun 2010 12:32

It's the same as the analogy in the UK re: the death of the back streets footballer.

Football is the simplest game in the world. That’s why it’s so popular; you just need a group of people and a form of ball. As a result the resources required to produce talent are minimal. One of the arguments as to why the quality of player (particularly from a technical level) has reduced in this country is because of the lack of street football played any more.

Nowadays kids are either fat, not allowed outside to play on their own or dealing drugs. The natural breeding ground for technical footballers is massively diminished (even more acutely in Scotland). That’s why everyone looks to Africa and South America for young talent; it’s where the natural footballers are being produced. Rooney is the last of a generation in that sense.

To HB's point - maybe burnt out is a factor? The European teams have a squad of players who have just played too much football. Whilst it's true many of the South American boys play in Europe, maybe the fact that some of the squad play in the less strenuous South American leagues is a consideration? Brazil and Argentina are maybe different - 98% of their players are in Europe so it's just pure quality that's carrying them through. But maybe for the next tier down - Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay etc, it is a factor?

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Dirk Gently » 21 Jun 2010 12:40

I also think it matters more to South Americans - for many of the over-paid Europeans this is another set of matches at the end of a long season. For S Americans (and Kiwis, etc) this is the chance of a life. Plus in some countries nationalism and playing for your country actually means a lot more than to some Europeans.y

And yes, I know many Brazilians play in Europe - but they're not the ones setting the world alight.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by papereyes » 21 Jun 2010 14:12

Magnus
Dirk Gently Read this and all will be revealed :


Not reading all that. Can you summarise in a couple of sentences?


Jonothan Wilson >> You


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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by papereyes » 21 Jun 2010 14:16

Hoop Blah In terms of just their immediate success at this tournament it seems a little odd.

I'm not sure how the fixtures have fallen for the South American teams so far but with the number of games played by now they must've played a reasonable mix. The European big guns have all stuttered so far so that highlights the good start the South Amercians have made but it does seem a bit odd.

Does the altitude have anything to do with it perhaps?

Is the South American qualifying just doing a bit more to provide teams that little nbit better? Don't forget there are 13 (??) European teams in the competition and only about 6 from South America so Europe must have a few more weaker teams in there.

Perhaps the South Americans are also that bit more motivated to make an impression to earn the big money moves to the major European leagues?


5 - Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay (won the play off vs Costa Rica)

But there's only 10 countries in the confederation - Peru, Venezuala, Bolivia, Colombia and Ecuador didn't qualify.
UEFA had 13 qualifiers from 50ish countries.

Is it perhaps a simple trick of geography? That South America and South Africa are, well, both in the southern hemisphere.

FWIW, I actually disagree with the idea that Inverting the Pyramid explains anything in this case. Whilst there is a severe issue in England/Britain about the role and success of smaller, more skillful players, its not something really covered in that book. There might be something in the 'makeup' of the 5 countries mentioned - Brazil has a massive population and is football mad but the other four are incredibly European in their ethnic makeup. Its the combination of influences and backgrounds that's important.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Archie's penalty » 22 Jun 2010 00:04

Now 8 wins 2 draws 0 losses for 18 against 4.

Chile looked impressive again today against Switzerland.

World cup is really hotting up.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 22 Jun 2010 20:30

since the 1970 world cup, South Americans teams not called Brazil or Argentina have managed a grand total of 1 quarter final appearance in 9 world cups so far. I doubt there's anything inherently superior about them.

The extreme difficulty teams are finding with playing balls in the air would favour teams who play a short passing game, trying to play through the middle, rather than teams who play with width.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by soggy biscuit » 22 Jun 2010 20:41

Because they don't all sit in as kids playing on their playstations, eating lardy cake and (probably) touching themselves


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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Ark Royal » 22 Jun 2010 21:10

Without trying to deconstruct it too much, maybe it is because their national teams are not full of chav Scouse cu nts.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Archie's penalty » 23 Jun 2010 00:10

10 2 0 20 4 now.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Maguire » 23 Jun 2010 00:37

Christ. Could they go through the tournament unbeaten :?:

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Tails » 23 Jun 2010 00:56

Maguire Christ. Could they go through the tournament unbeaten :?:


Christ, I really think that there is a good chance this may happen.


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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by papereyes » 23 Jun 2010 09:42

They'll shortly run out of African and Asian teams to play, so no.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by LUX » 23 Jun 2010 09:47

Two Groups finished so far

Qualified: Three Latin American teams (nod to RL) and an Asian one.

Teams eliminated (from these Groups): Two Europeans and two Africans.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by soggy biscuit » 23 Jun 2010 09:56

LUX Two Groups finished so far

Qualified: Three Latin American teams (nod to RL) and an Asian one.

Teams eliminated (from these Groups): Two Europeans and two Africans.


EuROFLopean footbaLOLLOL

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Magnus » 23 Jun 2010 10:08

The buck has to stop with Michel Platini.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by papereyes » 23 Jun 2010 10:42

LUX Two Groups finished so far

Qualified: Three Latin American teams (nod to RL) and an Asian one.

Teams eliminated (from these Groups): Two Europeans and two Africans.


I'd suggest to some extent that two groups is hardly representative - especially given that one featured the hosts-as-seeds problem.

Or have I bitten? :|

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by papereyes » 24 Jun 2010 22:01

or even spoken too soon :x

With two groups to go

Europe 4/10
North America 2/2
South America 3/3
Africa 1/5
Asia 2/3
Oceania 0/1

8 teams to come.
Last edited by papereyes on 24 Jun 2010 22:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why are the South Americans so good?

by Tony Le Mesmer » 24 Jun 2010 22:11

Uruguay anyone? plotted up with the draw now. Korea next and Ghana/USA if they win.

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