Long - time for a change?

[pea]

Does yours include injury time? (for both halves)

[Snowball]

They seem to be missing bits. Shane had an assist for Robbie Keane's goal and that's not on there and they have 2 not 5 international goals, 31 RFC goals. Last season they have him down as 6+1 when it should be 6+3 goals and they have him down as only 13 international appearances when I believe he's on 16.

[Snowball]

Shane has deffo scored 35 for RFC and his 5 international goals were

Bolivia
Denmark (2)
Russia
Norway

[Hoop Blah]

So as with pretty much all stats they need to be taking with a decent size pinch of salt because their accuracy isn't great.

As a loose comparison they might be interesting, but only if you don't band them round as gospel.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

70 league starts.........21....6pens
79 sub apps..............8

5 FA Cup goals in 10/3

1 LC goal in 6/1

Not really the supersub he was seen as.

Best season, under S Coppell really 08/09, where Long got 9 goals, in 11 starts (6goals)/26 sub apps (3goals), plus 2 starts in PO against Burnley. Being brought into the team slowly and sensibly, shame that at the start of 09/10 he was the lone Irishman left, as from the figures quoted he was on his way to being the 20 goal striker.

[Snowball]

70 league starts.........21....6pens
79 sub apps..............8
5 FA Cup goals in 10/3
1 LC goal in 6/1
Not really the supersub he was seen as.

Best season, under S Coppell really 08/09, where Long got 9 goals, in 11 starts (6goals)/26 sub apps (3goals), plus 2 starts in PO against Burnley. Being brought into the team slowly and sensibly, shame that at the start of 09/10 he was the lone Irishman left, as from the figures quoted he was on his way to being the 20 goal striker.

2009-10

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

0472 minutes under Rodgers (0 Goals)
1260 minutes under McDermott for 9 goals

A goal every 192 minutes overall, but under McD was a goal every 140 minutes

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I think Coppell was hoping to bring SL into the team the following season had we gone up, sadly it was not to be, and i would think Long took a bit of a knock. Promotion would have seen Doyle, Long and Hunt as strikers, a good 3 if fit, Doyle could have played with either Long or Hunt, and had S HGunt stayed then that could have been a potent force, especially had Kebe stepped up, perhaps things did not look so bad after all for the near future under Coppell, especially with a few good youngsters almost ready, Pearce, Feds and Siggs for a start.

[West Stand Man]

So as with pretty much all stats they need to be taking with a decent size pinch of salt because their accuracy isn't great.

As a loose comparison they might be interesting, but only if you don't band them round as gospel.

Sorry, but their accuracy is spot on. He scored all the goals mentioned. Whether they are relevant to this argument is a moot point.

[Hoop Blah]

So as with pretty much all stats they need to be taking with a decent size pinch of salt because their accuracy isn't great.

As a loose comparison they might be interesting, but only if you don't band them round as gospel.

Sorry, but their accuracy is spot on. He scored all the goals mentioned. Whether they are relevant to this argument is a moot point.

But they've missed some goals out according to Snowball. Or are you saying that's not the case?

They have him as 31 goals for RFC. He has 35. Is that spot on accuracy?

[Snowball]

But they have Shane down as 33 goals total, when he has 40

Maybe they too are downgrading penalties!



As for "relevance", international goals technically don't matter to RFC but they do add evidence of a player's quality. Shane has 5 international goals against decent opponents in less than 500 minutes on the pitch. Also, a few more international goals add to a player's market value.


Anyway, there is no argument, surely that Shane's minutes per goal overall is at least as good as Doyle's.

Two years ago when I was speaking up for Shane's goals-per-minute the counter-argument was he "only" scored goals but did little else.

This season most have said he has been a top player in terms of everything except getting enough goals. Well, it's factually clear he DOES get goals at the same rate as Doyle and his all-round play is also excellent.

Mark my words, we have a future Premiership player in Shane. Barring a serious injury he'll be playing in the top flight in 2012-13, hopefully with Reading.

[Snowball]

Semantics, maybe Hoop. All the goals they say he scored, he has. Their records, though are incomplete.

Doing this from memory

RFC

4 2005-06 Championship
4 2006-07 Premiership (think there's a cup goal in there v Burnley?)
3 2007-08 Premiership
9 2008-09 Championship (all league goals)
9 2009-10 Championship (6) plus v Liverpool (1) and Villa (2)
6 2010-11

Plus goals v Russia (1) Denmark (2) Bolivia (1) and Norway

5 Premiership Goals
5 Cup Goals v Premiership Opponents
5 International Goals

25 Championship Goals

7 out of 40 (I think) have been penalties and he's missed one.

[pea]

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold, showing faith in Kebe, switching to 4-2-3-1, playing Sig in the 'hole', getting the fans onside, being nice to the press, not putting the pressure of captaincy on Pearce, bringing in experience to out backline (Griffin, Khiz).

All equally important in my mind

[Svlad Cjelli]

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold, showing faith in Kebe, switching to 4-2-3-1, playing Sig in the 'hole', getting the fans onside, being nice to the press, not putting the pressure of captaincy on Pearce, bringing in experience to out backline (Griffin, Khiz).

All equally important in my mind

Snowball only has eyes for Shane so everything else is irrelevant to him ....

[Hoop Blah]

Pea, good points, but you also forgot to mention reverting from a tippy tappy passing game to getting it forward as quickly as possible too.

A lot changed and made for some fantastic short term results and to be fair to him Shane Long played his part too.

Wasn't he shaking off an injury for most of Rodgers time anyway?

[ZacNaloen]

He was, he had an ankle injury that as far as we know he didn't really get over until towards the end of the Rodgers tenure.

Don't forget shane was being played by Rodgers until his injury forced him to the sidelines.

[Man Friday]

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold, showing faith in Kebe, switching to 4-2-3-1, playing Sig in the 'hole', getting the fans onside, being nice to the press, not putting the pressure of captaincy on Pearce, bringing in experience to out backline (Griffin, Khiz).

All equally important in my mind

Well said.

[Ian Royal]

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold, showing faith in Kebe, switching to 4-2-3-1, playing Sig in the 'hole', getting the fans onside, being nice to the press, not putting the pressure of captaincy on Pearce, bringing in experience to out backline (Griffin, Khiz).

All equally important in my mind

Well said.

indeedily doodily

[Snowball]

Frozen out by Rodgers, IMO. Biggest single change McDermott made was to bring Shane in out of the cold

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold, showing faith in Kebe, switching to 4-2-3-1, playing Sig in the 'hole', getting the fans onside, being nice to the press, not putting the pressure of captaincy on Pearce, bringing in experience to out backline (Griffin, Khiz).

All equally important in my mind

Griffin, obviously 2,175 Minutes: Kish less so, just 10/11 starts out of 31 Games

Pearce went from 1,434 Minutes under Rodgers to just 737 (8 games from 31 under McDermott. I'd call that dropped)
Pearce played the first three games under McDermott then had two partial appearances out of the next 23 games.

Tabb and Karacan played LESS average minutes under McDermott

Adjusted for 23 (Rodgers) v 31 (McDermott) Games

Percentage increase in minutes per game played


These Players Played MORE

XXX% Griffin
XXX% Zurab

321% Long (Had Shane not got himself sent off, and kept being selected)
260% Long (available for 4 less games after red card in 48th minute v WBA)
258% Mills
254% Gunn
183% Gylf
178% McAnuff
160% Kebe
129% Howard
123% Bertrand
116% Ingi
113% Church
106% Federici

These players played LESS

75% Karacan
66% Rasiak
65% Tabb
44% Cisse
36% Pearce
25% Matejovsky
18% HRK

[Snowball]

What about bringing Tabb, Karacan, Gunnarsson and Mills out of the cold

Interesting when the actual figures are checked, eh?

Minutes played under McDermott compared with under Rodgers = 75% Karacan, 65% Tabb. They played LESS

[Hoop Blah]

But they were used quite differently weren't they?

Tabb probably played most of his games under Rodgers at right back but in central midfield for McDermott.

The point is, and I assume the one pea is making, Long coming into the side wasn't the main change that McDermott made and wasn't the main reason for the upturn in form.