Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Royal Rother]

[prostak]

Did you remember to add VAT on the transfer fee as well??

Nice £10M into the Chancellor's coffers from yesterdays deal........

Is VAT on Transfer fees non deductible? If not surely Liverpool's Output Tax is Chelsea's Input Tax which means that the benefit to the Revenue equals £0

Wait... Are Liverpool charging HMRC?

[Skyline]

Businesses can offset VAT they pay out against VAT they get in.

Assuming the numbers quoted are ex-VAT, and that transfer fees are VAT-able[1], they would receive £10m on the Torres transfer, against which they could offset the £7m from the Carroll transfer, leaving a net of £3m to pay. Newcastle in turn would then pay the £7m they receive from the Carroll transfer.

[1] I have no idea of whether either of those statements is valid, btw.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The DCMS enquiry on Football Governance held its first witness sessions today - some wonderful stuff was said :

Graham Kelly - "The PL today is a very different animal from the one that was planned"
Lord Triesman - "Apart from yellow cards, the FA has given up on trying to govern football."
Triesman has also given the enquiry his blueprint on how the FA should be reformed, which he submitted in response to the "7 Burnham Questions" - and which he said the PL "kicked into touch in 2 minutes."

All good stuff!

[Svlad Cjelli]

News from the High Court - Redknapp, Mandaric & Storrie will stand trial, they have failed in an attempt to get cases dismissed.

Also, liquidators appointed who will shortly start forensic post-mortem of the old PFC to establish what happened.

[Ian Royal]

News from the High Court - Redknapp, Mandaric & Storrie will stand trial, they have failed in an attempt to get cases dismissed.

Also, liquidators appointed who will shortly start forensic post-mortem of the old PFC to establish what happened.

Er, is it they spent far more than they had and they then got sold to a string of dodgy types who didn't have any genuine money and were using the club for laundering purposes?

Looking forward to a Premier League manager finding himself behind bars.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Sky quick to monopolise on the £20 Box Office Jail Night (£17.95 for existing subscribers)

[Svlad Cjelli]

News from the High Court - Redknapp, Mandaric & Storrie will stand trial, they have failed in an attempt to get cases dismissed.

Also, liquidators appointed who will shortly start forensic post-mortem of the old PFC to establish what happened.

Er, is it they spent far more than they had and they then got sold to a string of dodgy types who didn't have any genuine money and were using the club for laundering purposes?

Looking forward to a Premier League manager finding himself behind bars.

You missed something out - the fact that Portsmouth's accounting system consisted of a plastic carrier bag stuffed with invoices and receipts. (I lie not!)

[Svlad Cjelli]

The evidence submitted to the DCMS enquiry on Football Governance has been published. Not read it yet as there's 447 pages in all, but it's below if anyone fancies dipping in : (it is indexed, so it is easy to find evidence submitted by the FA, PL, FL, STAR, the FSF as well as certain nobbers...)

http://bit.ly/e8UKwk

[Svlad Cjelli]

Portsmouth's accounting system consisted of a plastic carrier bag stuffed with invoices and receipts. (I lie not!)

FOR REAL?!?

Certainly some of it, at least.

[Silver Fox]

The evidence submitted to the DCMS enquiry on Football Governance has been published. Not read it yet as there's 447 pages in all, but it's below if anyone fancies dipping in : (it is indexed, so it is easy to find evidence submitted by the FA, PL, FL, STAR, the FSF as well as certain nobbers...)

http://bit.ly/e8UKwk

Obviously, in time honoured fashion, I'm not reading all that

But, is it just evidence, or are there any conclusions?

[Svlad Cjelli]

The evidence submitted to the DCMS enquiry on Football Governance has been published. Not read it yet as there's 447 pages in all, but it's below if anyone fancies dipping in : (it is indexed, so it is easy to find evidence submitted by the FA, PL, FL, STAR, the FSF as well as certain nobbers...)

http://bit.ly/e8UKwk

Obviously, in time honoured fashion, I'm not reading all that

But, is it just evidence, or are there any conclusions?

It's about a hundred+ organisations and individuals all saying (with examples) that the PL has too much power and the FA is impotent.

The only two submissions which disagree are from the PL and the FA.

[Ian Royal]

NIce to see the FA had the guts to stand up and be counted in their major opportunity.

[Gav]

The evidence submitted to the DCMS enquiry on Football Governance has been published. Not read it yet as there's 447 pages in all, but it's below if anyone fancies dipping in : (it is indexed, so it is easy to find evidence submitted by the FA, PL, FL, STAR, the FSF as well as certain nobbers...)

http://bit.ly/e8UKwk

Obviously, in time honoured fashion, I'm not reading all that

But, is it just evidence, or are there any conclusions?

It's about a hundred+ organisations and individuals all saying (with examples) that the PL has too much power and the FA is impotent.

The only two submissions which disagree are from the PL and the FA.

I've had a quick look and I'm yet to see any "evidence". It all seems very much the anecdotal opinions of individuals... Which is great and all, but hardly anything you could term as actionable.

I haven't gone through the whole document, and I apologise if it gets meatier later, but I can't see how this could be expected to achieve anything whatsoever.

[ZacNaloen]

I have to say this at the top of page 9 is an erroneous conclusion

This has resulted, according to current FAPL figures, in a position where the FAPL
development programme produces some 50 foreign players within the U16-U18 cohort
with an attrition rate of less than two players for every one graduating whereas 270
indigenous players graduate into the U16-U18 category with an attrition rate of nine
players for every one graduating. These figures suggest a focus on the development of
foreign players. (FA Premier League website

The figure also suggests that when clubs bring in a foreign player they do so with certain criteria, such as the player already being well into his teens, already filled with regards to that players quality. Whereas with younger english players they start with a younger, rawer product starting at an age where final quality is harder to predict and as such more fail to make the grade.

[Super_horns]

There has been talk of a take-over for a few months with reagrd to us..

Nothing much officially though.

[Svlad Cjelli]

.....
I haven't gone through the whole document, and I apologise if it gets meatier later, but I can't see how this could be expected to achieve anything whatsoever.

At the very minimum this will get 2 independent Broad members onto the FA, but tbh I can see a proper implementation of Burns as a real possibility.

It genuinely is a significant thing - and only happening because government is politically ready to intervene.

[Jackson Corner]

Old news, but the Leyton Orient thinks teams that go into administration should be relegated two divisions! I quite agree with that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1278462/Orient-chairman-Barry-Hearn-calls-administrated-clubs-relegated-TWO-divisions.html

'Clubs that spend more money than they can afford, that go into administration, have been guilty of cheating, nothing less. 'They are fielding a team they couldn't afford to field in a level playing field situation.

Agree how were Pompey punished for running up debts of 160 million? A nine point deduction when they were already bottom and going down.
Palace have twice gone in to administration yet Sheff Wed Peterborough and Plymouth avoid it and go down.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Old news, but the Leyton Orient thinks teams that go into administration should be relegated two divisions! I quite agree with that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1278462/Orient-chairman-Barry-Hearn-calls-administrated-clubs-relegated-TWO-divisions.html

'Clubs that spend more money than they can afford, that go into administration, have been guilty of cheating, nothing less. 'They are fielding a team they couldn't afford to field in a level playing field situation.

I think each case should be treated on its merits, as some clubs do get into trouble despite their best intentions not to, but those that have gambled deserve to be treated harshly.

As the story came out last season, I guess it's safe to assume most chairman wanted to carry on gambling.

[floyd__streete]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 401625.stm

Tbh, Reading and Plymouth are probably similar sized clubs. One - for all our bitching - has run itself pretty well in the context of avoiding something like this, the other hasn't and will be playing fourth division football next season.....at best. Cheers Mr Mad, you tight get