Back From the Game Birmingham

[melonhead]

if hunt gets a run , and doesnt work out then id go 4231 with lefondre up front on his own
and.....howard?.... as part of the three

[Svlad Cjelli]

if hunt gets a run , and doesnt work out then id go 4231 with lefondre up front on his own
and.....howard?.... as part of the three

Face facts. Howard's not coming back.

Mentally he's moved on - everything he's said supports the fact.

And why should he? He's moved to a club where he gets to play every week and doesn't get abused by the club's supporters - would you come back?

[melonhead]

nope- is taylor ready yet?

pretty much our only choice

[Extended-Phenotype]

So-and-so was “fantastic” or had a “Man of Match” performance, or so-and-so was “terrible” and should “never play for Reading again”…

Reviews falling into two camps and both are sh.t camps.

A bit of realism here. Can’t really fault Feds, and the back-four kept a clean sheet, but they didn’t eliminate every threat and needed to push the ball on far more than they did – these dudes have more to do than just defend before they can bask in the glory of “fantastic”.

This is even more relevant to Legs and Jem - decent enough, but “amazing” and “man of the match”? Give over, they are our central midfield – how many chances did they carve out for us? There is more to their job than just harrying the opposition and picking a short pass to the wing.

This match is not a “kick-start” to anything. It’s a hard earned 3 points from a team who are far from working.

We are a third into the season and we still don’t know who to start up front, the choice being a player who can’t score, a player who can’t stop injuring himself, and a player who can’t breathe after 5 minutes light running.

It’s over a year since we last saw any creativity come from the central midfield. This would be tolerable if we could rely on our wingers, but we have one chap seriously out of form, another who couldn’t give a toss (understandably), and replacements who are variable at best. We used to pride ourselves on our wings. Like KFC. Or that place by the station where you get 10 and fries for a few quid. Nice.

The back four is inconsistent, inexperienced and mistake-prone and our goalkeeper is likely to f/ off in January. Probably because of a black-hole or a supernova or something (JM’s excuses are becoming more outlandish by the second).

We have the foundation and the spirit to do well, but we really must address these issues properly instead of sweeping it under the carpet. Yes it’s hard to think about, but what the f/ are we going to do, Brian? This performance does not guarantee 3 points each time, and is not going to win us enough games to remain competitive in this league.

Are we just settling for mid-table or worse? Or are we going to sort it out and grow? Sorry for the negativity, but this season has damage control written all over it. I dread to think what next seasons targets are. Constructive reality is the biscuit.

[melonhead]

except pretty much everyone who said ledge/jem mills/pearce/gorkss had great games said exactly the same things about creativity, strikers and wingers, so im not sure who is sweeping anything under the carpet, or ignoring our obvious deficiencies.
so calm down m8!

[Hoop Blah]

Why, when we finally have the defence settled and working well together, would we want to chop it around just to accommodate Harte's left foot, which let's face it wasn't all that cultured the earlier in the season - that's aimed at Dellor not you Meloncat

Why? Because we're really struggling to create chances and part of that is because we're set up so defensively and partly because the wingers aren't doing enough.

Harte offers a goal threat from set pieces over and above the rest of our players and so sometimes you have to change part of the team that's working to fix a bit that isn't. I don't think the solution suggested would work, but I can see why it would be considered.

Someone suggested quite a while ago that Harte could maybe play in the middle of the park. If we were to go formation that was more 4-2-3-1 then perhaps Harte could sit in there as one of the two. I'm against that to be honest but he reads the game pretty well, is comfortable on the ball to be able to play in the tight spaces and limited time you get in there and would offer good defensive cover on the left to allow the left back and winger to be a little more adventerous.

The current back four with Legiertwood and Harte sitting in front of them and a couple of wingers let off the leash might be more effective. I still don't think we have the number 10 or number 9 to play the system well though.

[Svlad Cjelli]

TBF, if all of the 11 players play utter crap but one of them is slightly better than the others- then he has put in a "man of the match" perromance. To be MotM for your team you don't need to be great - you just need to be better than the 10 others!

[melonhead]

think weve had two defensive minded midfielders for as long as i can remember
job has always been to break up play, spray balls out to the wings, and get on the edge of the box for any rebounds
its the wingers who are the problem, and how/when we get the ball to them

[Ian Royal]

think weve had two defensive minded midfielders for as long as i can remember
job has always been to break up play, spray balls out to the wings, and get on the edge of the box for any rebounds
its the wingers who are the problem, and how/when we get the ball to them

Yes. Back in the Coppell pomp the only difference was Harper was a better passer than any of our holding midfielders since and Sidwell was better at going box to box and scoring than any of them.


I agree Howard looks like a gonner so hopefully Hunt, Manset, Taylor or a new signing can step up as the second striker / AM in the hole.

[If you still hate Futcher]

Why, when we finally have the defence settled and working well together, would we want to chop it around just to accommodate Harte's left foot, which let's face it wasn't all that cultured the earlier in the season - that's aimed at Dellor not you Meloncat

Why? Because we're really struggling to create chances and part of that is because we're set up so defensively and partly because the wingers aren't doing enough.

Harte offers a goal threat from set pieces over and above the rest of our players and so sometimes you have to change part of the team that's working to fix a bit that isn't. I don't think the solution suggested would work, but I can see why it would be considered.

Someone suggested quite a while ago that Harte could maybe play in the middle of the park. If we were to go formation that was more 4-2-3-1 then perhaps Harte could sit in there as one of the two. I'm against that to be honest but he reads the game pretty well, is comfortable on the ball to be able to play in the tight spaces and limited time you get in there and would offer good defensive cover on the left to allow the left back and winger to be a little more adventerous.

The current back four with Legiertwood and Harte sitting in front of them and a couple of wingers let off the leash might be more effective. I still don't think we have the number 10 or number 9 to play the system well though.

Fair enough, we'll agree to differ. Personally I don't see the point in putting on another defender if the problem is going forward. Harte may offer something else from freekicks but they'd have to be far enough up the pitch in order for him to have a chance - I think we had one such freekick on Sunday and add to that, when he has played this season his freekicks were pretty poor. As I said on another thread a couple of weeks ago, Harte was brilliant last season and was possibly the best of the back 4 but this may just be one season too far for him.

In contrast, the current back 4 have shown signs of progression since they came together and in the last couple of games I've seen (Palace & Brum) both full backs have managed to get forward - this should only improve as they get more and more confident and will also help the wingers as they will get the ball in better situations and won't be so isolated. It's getting there but it's not an overnight fix - there wasn't nearly so much aimless hoofing against Brum and even Pearce tried to get it down and play it at times.

[Vision]

Thing is at this level it's a trade off. Virtually everyone here and elsewhere has their plussess and minuses.

At the point where we changed our back 4 after 4 straight defeats we had to do something. That something was to go back to basics and build from the back so to speak and aside from the initial couple of games with this unit where Federici held it almost single handedly together we've been far better for it. That doesn't ncecessarily exclude us though from then looking to improve further and be more progressive even if we know that increases the risk of being more exposed defensively.

I quite liked Mills from the beginning and he seems to be improving with every game. That doesn't however mean that we completely disregard the possibility of playing Harte if he is going to provide more constructive passing,better dead ball delivery and a goal threat. I wouldn't do it myself because I think Mills is providing support further forward as well as getting better and better defensively.However you only need to look at Newcastle to see them playing a guy at left back who not only isnt a full back, he is all right foot but currently the manager thinks he's worth the trade off. I certainly wouldn't think that McD would completely shut the door on Harte for the same reason just yet.

Personally thoiugh, If anything as I suggested about 3 weeks ago and others appear to be noticing as well it's the other full back that also needs to look at how he can add more to his game. Cummings needs to be more penetrative and give opposition defences something to think about. He's done a sterling job defensively which was just what we needed at the time but we now require him to give more going forward.Griffin may be considerably slower but he would without fail provide 3 or 4 overlap runs in every game.Cummings simply doesn't at the moment

As Hoop Blah has said either here or elsewhere players dont work in a vacuum. They all have a part to play with the overall effectiveness whatver their assigned positions. IE Strikers defending from the front, Gorkks and Pearce passing the ball constructively and in Cummings' case an extra few per cent in the opposition third without necessarily leaving us wide open (we have two pretty defensively solid central midfielders to cover afterall) would in my view make a considerable difference to our attacking threat.

[Svlad Cjelli]

It's more or less accepted wisdom that when you're building a new team you start with the defence, then move forward. Every manager tends to do it that way - from Fergie when he started at Man Utd, to what Man City have done over the past few years.

Assuming we're doing the same then things seem to be pretty much on track.

[Vision]

It's more or less accepted wisdom that when you're building a new team you start with the defence, then move forward. Every manager tends to do it that way - from Fergie when he started at Man Utd, to what Man City have done over the past few years.

Assuming we're doing the same then things seem to be pretty much on track.

No question we're doing that in my view and the players are to a certain extent only following management instructions but at what stage do you release the shackles a little. I definitely think despite some of the moans a change towards less general hoofing in recent weeks(I wasnt at Forest tbf which sounded terrible) and us at least trying to mix the play up a bit as well.

That said McD's real strength as a manager to me seems to be his ability to assess what he has at his disposal and decide the best way to play to get the maximum out of it. He may have decided that despite his general philosophy being to play on the front foot and attack that it doesn't suit this group of players. I just think we have and I think McD recognises we have a talent in Le Fondre and sooner rather than later we need to do more to service him (ooer) before he drifts into mediocrity.

I'm not saying anything radical needs to happen but just a little extra composure from the likes of Gorkks and Pearce plus more penetration going forward from Mills and especially Cummings would make a big difference to our attacking options. Otherwise I can see us limping along between now and the end of the season playing tight mediocre games with nothing much to get excited about.

[purleyroyal]

... Back in the Coppell pomp the only difference was Harper was a better passer than any of our holding midfielders since and Sidwell was better at going box to box and scoring than any of them...

I see what you did there mate

[floyd__streete]

We have the foundation and the spirit to do well, but we really must address these issues properly instead of sweeping it under the carpet. Yes it’s hard to think about, but what the f/ are we going to do, Brian?

Agree with most of your post - as I always tend to - but it's a bit harsh to blame Brian, who regularly has his best assets sold from under his nose and has to make, do and mend with what is left over.

[knobby_1871]

Just watched the highlights on BBC site and Le Fondre goes mental when he is not played in when Jobi misses, would love to have heard what he said and Notgoodenuff's explanation http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15626881.stm

[bcubed]

Just watched the highlights on BBC site and Le Fondre goes mental when he is not played in when Jobi misses, would love to have heard what he said and Notgoodenuff's explanation http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15626881.stm

I prefer Hadenuff

as in we have had enough, had enough, Jobi, had enough

[M-U-R-T-Y]

Relish the prospect of Jobi HadEnuff and Hal Robson-Kan'tdo on the wings.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Don't forget Jimmy Meh-be

[reading_fan]

As someone texted to BBCRB a game quite like Tuesday's, which really deserved to be a draw. But we got the odd goal in this one where Forest got it on Tuesday, so happy with 3 points from these two games.

That was me! And Tim Dellor laughed it off by saying "take 3 points and run" which obviously I'm happy with the win, but both games could and probably should have been draws. Not complaining with the extra point though