John Terry

[Hoop Blah]

I still think Terry needs to be in the squad.

Rio is always injured
Jones prone to mistakes and has played his best games by far in centre mid
Cahil has been really poor the last 6 months. Needs to prove himself one at Chelsea but not been played.

IMO the best two for consistency this season have been Smalling and Lescot.

I agree on a footballing front that I'd have Terry in the side for the Euro's (all things remaining as they are - was going to dig up the old squad discussion the other day to see how things may have changed). You need a steady and experienced influence in a back four and he's actually recovered some form this season.

If Fergie actually played Jones at centre back for a few months he might well be the answer but, as you say, he's not looked totally convincing there (Fergie's fault if you ask me).

We have some decent options back there but ultimately I do think it's about who can play with Terry.

Having said that, now he's been stripped of the captaincy I'd be tempted not to take him at all. That might not be the best for our success this tournament but if we can get Cahill and Lescott (for example) to gell over the next few months it might be the best thing alround.

[3 veesinarow]

The T-Shirts will be on sale this weekend.

Justice for JT - he's our leader.

[No Fixed Abode]

The T-Shirts will be on sale this weekend.

Justice for JT - he's our leader.

This would work if he played for Liverpool.

[Dare to Dr£am]

The T-Shirts will be on sale this weekend.

Justice for JT - he's our leader.

Justice for JT

KKKick Racism out of Football

[Terminal Boardom]

That's funny

[soggy biscuit]

The T-Shirts will be on sale this weekend.

Justice for JT - he's our leader.

Justice for JT

KKKick Racism out of Football

[3 veesinarow]

The T-Shirts will be on sale this weekend.

Justice for JT - he's our leader.

This would work if he played for Liverpool.

RattLOLed.

[floyd__streete]

How can you undermine the manager if he's leaving anyway and hasn't really given a toss throughout his tenure?

Hope you aren't accusing Capello of being lazy and resorting to a 'lazy eye-tie' stereotype, thus making you as bad as the man you vilify on this thread.

SF - a cancer on the sport I LOLove.

[Eaststandman]

Can't say I'm particularly exercised about JT either way, but the FA setting themselves above the law of the land is disconcerting IMHO Morale flexibility, based on supposition, opinion and as yet unproven evidence is more worrying. The innocent until proven guilty stance is what makes our judicial system, (albeit flawed) the finest in the world. To dilute it for the sake of a person who is probably less sophisticated than Alf Garnet is a pity.

[Hoop Blah]

And what about nearly every other walk of life where you'd get suspended for being under investigation for sexual or racial incidents?

It's not being above the law, it's just a pretty standard process for most walks of life.

[Eaststandman]

And what about nearly every other walk of life where you'd get suspended for being under investigation for sexual or racial incidents?

It's not being above the law, it's just a pretty standard process for most walks of life.

Not convinced that nearly everybody else in 'any walk of life's' circumstances would be so public or high profile and it would be ironic if JT were 'guilty' but got off because the publicity surrounding his case has been detrimental to the safe outcome of a verdict by a jury of his peers!

Fortunately we can agree to differ with impunity, could be far more damaging to JT who will go into the trial with some prejudicial baggage whether that is 'fair' or not.

Dabbling with the intention, privacy and or security of case law is fraught with potential problems, even the Americans accept that plea bargaining for example, has become a mockery in many cases and it started with such good intentions before it became misused.

Justice is a complex issue and our current system of principles is still better than many modified alternatives.

[Hoop Blah]

Who said anything about anyone else being so high profile? I certainly didn't.

I'm simply saying, in response to your comment about being innocent until proven guilty, that if anyone at my work, or a teacher, policeman, a sparky or a most other jobs was accused of racially or sexually a colleague, supplier or competitor they'd be suspended awaiting a tribunal or investigation.

[No Fixed Abode]

, that if anyone at my work, or a teacher, policeman, a sparky or a most other jobs was accused of racially or sexually a colleague, supplier or competitor they'd be suspended awaiting a tribunal or investigation.

Yes, but this didn't happen to Suarez - he was found guilty, then got his ban, so the FA have to be consistent.

[TFF]

Is Terry banned now?

[soggy biscuit]

But elsewhere it was being disclosed that when Terry became aware of mounting antipathy among the England squad's black players during the buildup to their most recent match, against Sweden on 15 November, two weeks after the alleged outburst, he had requested a player close to him to ask the most disaffected team-mate if there was a problem. The answer: "F*cking right there's a problem."

lol

[Victor Meldrew]

I appreciate the arguments both for and against regarding the captaincy but the taking it away because of an unproven charge sits a bit uneasy with me.
It looks as though the FA will be happy to play Giggs and Beckham in our Olympic team solely for commercial reasons and totally against the ethos of the Olympics but are prepared to sacrifice Terry (can people actually see him playing now?) and thereby IMHO reducing our (limited) chances of winning the European Championship.

I have to say that with the passage of time and subsequently the massively overstated seriousness of those few words spoken in the heat of battle I feel that Blatter's shake- hands -and-get-on-with-it approach would have been a far bettter solution than the palaver that continues months later in the case of both Terry and Suarez.
There is more publicity around these two (yes I know two wrongs don't make a right)than will ever apply to 74 people dying at a football match in Egypt.

Incidentally it now appears that the issue of homophobia in football is to become the latest issue to be addressed by the FA.
IIRC I can't remember at least in the past 30 years anything but the odd "Dooes your boyfriend know you''re here?" directed at Brighton fans.
You people at the FA-don't try to create a problem where none exists.
They applaud themselves over "Kick racism out of football" campaign being a succeess-no FA IMHO it was down to a legal and social change in attitudes that have brought about fantastic improvements on the terraces (alright,in the seats) not the artificial campaign by the FA so lauded by themselves.

After racism and now homophobia what is next?
"Keep buggery (or is it beastiality?) out of football" aimed at fans from anywhere in the sticks or Wales by banning the "sheepshaggers"taunts.
Please let football get on with itself and have less concern about taking the moral high ground and at the same time let players tackle each other rather than red card a player for making a tackle when the other player (Dembele,Nani etc.) chickens out.
While they are at it how about tackling anti-semitic taunts which have been around for ages (are Jews less sensitive than blacks?) or anti-unemployment chants addressed to scousers (amazingly even by impoverished Mancs or Southerners).

"Kick football back into football" strikes me as a reasonable slogan rather than the negative "Kick out...." for anything that the FA in it's high and mighty way decides as the campaign for the moment.

[Hoop Blah]

, that if anyone at my work, or a teacher, policeman, a sparky or a most other jobs was accused of racially or sexually a colleague, supplier or competitor they'd be suspended awaiting a tribunal or investigation.

Yes, but this didn't happen to Suarez - he was found guilty, then got his ban, so the FA have to be consistent.

He doesn't play for (or captain) England and he didn't have a court case relating to an on pitch offence hanging over his head.

[soggy biscuit]

This still cracks me up 3 years on
http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/4076812._NHS_is_exploiting_my_life____claims_transsexual/

[Eaststandman]

Who said anything about anyone else being so high profile? I certainly didn't.

I'm simply saying, in response to your comment about being innocent until proven guilty, that if anyone at my work, or a teacher, policeman, a sparky or a most other jobs was accused of racially or sexually a colleague, supplier or competitor they'd be suspended awaiting a tribunal or investigation.

No argument with you really, just a respectful difference of opinion. For me your examples are moot, in so far as fewer people care by and large about the butcher, the baker the candlestick maker, teacher or policeman. In fact for the most part they will remain pretty anonymous.

Victor Meldrew's idea about 'kicking football in' amongst others is a good point, but I don't agree with everything he says either. I do know for a fact that last Sunday under 14's league game between my son's 11 and that of another nearby town's 11 was over shadowed by the incomprehesible to the players at least, inclusion of a set of stakes, rope and banner encouraging the 'Respect For Referees' campaign!

Not sure there is a serious problem at this level, but all of the boys were puzzled by the passing either side of the rope and stakes for a handshake.

Sometimes I think the FA et al are tilting at windmills!

[Hoop Blah]

You've confused me here Eaststandman.

You said that the FA were putting themselves above the law of the land by treating him as guilty before being proven so. My only comment in that is that this happens in most other industries so they're not doing anything more than other bodies do day in day out (in fact I'd say they're doing less). They aren't diluting as you suggest.

The public interest and attention doesn't really come into the argument as far as I'm concerned.

The Respect campaign is targetted at completely the wrong end of the game I agree, but again that's going off on quite a wild tangent.

VM, not sure what Beckham or Giggs have done to warrant the comparisons in this case. I know you'll hold a grudge against them for their United backgrounds (and I agree they shouldn't be included in the Olympic squad) but they're not on criminal charges and awaiting trial so I don't get why the need to drag them into things.