The Snowball stat thread

[Hoop Blah]

Really? I know you struggle to see things with your own eyes at times but this happens all the time with Church, he's just too easy to defend against.

I can't list you a dozen instances because I don't catalogue them away, but suffice to say that I see it every game and it's one of my over riding impressions of him.

Of course it happens to other forwards too (see Hunt failing to convert Antonio's cross the other day) but Church just makes more of a habit of it.

My personal memory this season is NOT of Church failing to create a chance he should,
no more than anyone else, at least. These are the only "possibles" I could find mentioned on the OS

SIX. Even if you added those and called them chances, he'd still be way more productiove (goals/shot)
then either Le Fondred or Hunt

Doncaster

And then a beautiful long ball from the Jobi McAnuff sent Church away and just as he pulled the trigger George Friend managed to stick out a leg to half block the strike and force the ball wide of the right post.

DERBY

Second half The first chance of the second half fell to the feet of the fit-again Jimmy Kebe, who coasted through to the edge of the area but toed it on to Church too late for him to shoot first time and a Derby leg got back to break the move up.

IPSWICH AWAY

First half:
Simon Church was unlucky not to score inside the first couple of minutes - Jimmy Kebe got in an excellent cross from the right but it was inches too far ahead of Church's boot.

BLACKPOOL AWAY

Le Fondre then played a wonderful ball through for Church, and it was just too strong for the Welshman to control - otherwise he was in on goal.

CARDIFF AWAY

Church was then very close to a tap-in from Hunt's low cross but again City defended well. (Shot saved or block?)

HULL HOME (Don't know if this is one)

With 13 on the clock Robbie Brady tested Adam Federici with a good free kick, and then Jem Karacan broke down the other end but couldn't quite play Church in.

Do you think the OS match reports are a good place to look for evidence of our players not making the most of an opportunity? How much room for constructive comment and critque do you think they have.

Just as a reminder, the last time we had a discussion about the content of the match reports and their accuracy, you were claiming that we only had something like 1 'attacking free kick' per game because that's all the match reports mentioned.

[Snowball]

Church is definitely not doing the Shane role!

Unless he finds another gear and muscles up a bit.

He may not be good enough to do it, but he's been in that role

Do you not think that Longs role was as a goalscorer and someone who could make things happen?

It was secondary that he closed down well.

And Long is in the Prem

[Snowball]

Do you think the OS match reports are a good place to look for evidence of our players not making the most of an opportunity? How much room for constructive comment and critque do you think they have.

No. I have already said, "I have no recollection of Simon Church failing t get shots away
any more than any striker fails."

THEREFORE, I have two choices, watch 28 * 90 minutes, or see if there is evidence elsewhere.


So far you are "just saying it" and citing NO examples


I am "just saying" I think you're wrong, and I think you're wrong, because,
like me, and like a high proportion of fans we "don't believe in" Churchy
and just THINK he plays less well.

If you deny the stats I need evidence, not just people mumbling

[Hoop Blah]

Go back and read the first Shane thread where it felt at times
like me against the whole of Hob Nob

And I turned out to be right.

Long proved his critics wrong by turning round his fortunes.

You're defence of him because of his stats wasn't a case of being right, even if the outcome of Longs contribution to our success was. I still take issue with you're claiming to be so right about the number of goals he could score etc etc (it's not like you don't bring it up every other day!). Take out the penalties and his return is a lot more average (although I'm not saying they weren't an important part of his and our success, just that a lot of the criticism on here was that he wasn't scoring enough goals from open play).

[Snowball]

So 16 games is now the form table.


That's not "debate"

That's not intelligent discussion.

That's not genuine query.

That's piss-take, encitement, classic cowardly passive-aggressive

You win. I’ve literally just explained the context of that comment, and you've ignored it. There's simply no point to this any more.

If you want to continue this debate further, pm me. Otherwise, my previous post stands as to how I will continue to respond to you on this board.

Bizarre.

You yourself said it was "curt". Why curt?

Where is the invitation to intelligent reasoned debate?

It was a typical "cute" remark, nothing much on the surface but plenty beneath.

[Hoop Blah]

No. I have already said, "I have no recollection of Simon Church failing t get shots away
any more than any striker fails."

THEREFORE, I have two choices, watch 28 * 90 minutes, or see if there is evidence elsewhere.


So far you are "just saying it" and citing NO examples


I am "just saying" I think you're wrong, and I think you're wrong, because,
like me, and like a high proportion of fans we "don't believe in" Churchy
and just THINK he plays less well.

If you deny the stats I need evidence, not just people mumbling

I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. It seems part of your problem is that unless you can quantify it by good or poor statistical means then an opinion is worthless.

Personally I can accept that you don't agree that Church is wastful of more chances than the rest of our forwards. I'm happy to have a conversation about it, and back it up with evidence where I have it, but in this case I don't. Nor do you.

A debate doesn't need to be a statiscal analysis.

[leicsRoyal]

Without reading through the last 16 pages, I'm sorry if this is mentioned somewhere.

I would imagine that we are in a pretty similar league placing as we were this time last season, probably with a similar record over the previous eight games or so.

In our last 17 games of last season we picked up 36 points to finish 5th. I am sure that McDermott knows this better than any of us and has strengthened accordingly. If he stays fit, Roberts could get us the goals we badly need.

Two wins out of every three games will give us a great chance again.

[ellpryjon]

0,077 Start for 1 Goals = 0.077 Mins per Goal Roberts (Added for future reference)

That's incredible - if he keeps that up he'll score 1169 goals against Coventry.

To be fair he will probably score them all in the first half......then Coventry will score 1170 in the second......

[leicsRoyal]

He may not be good enough to do it, but he's been in that role

Do you not think that Longs role was as a goalscorer and someone who could make things happen?

It was secondary that he closed down well.

And Long is in the Prem

I am not sure how to respond to that?

[Snowball]

Amazing the difference between a comma being there and not being there

[Cobi]

If you're strike pairing aren't getting 1 goal in 3 then you have to reevaluate imo. Church wont ever be that consistent, so he can run along. Alfie can be and has been, and should be partnering Roberts, with Hunt, who also fails in the consistency ratings, should provide back-up off the bench.

[Snowball]

And Long is in the Prem

I am not sure how to respond to that? [/quote]

Not complicated. Shane was awesome last year and got into the Prem. He is two years older than Church.


Church, just 23, is currently at a Championship club, top scorer, and has two years to achieve Shane's status.

But even if he DOESN'T, as long as he trains on and improve, he'll be a more than decent Chapionship striker



PS I am NOT a fan of Church, just stating the facts

[Woodcote Royal]

Snowball chooses that sample size because it produces the results that best illustrate his point. No other reason.

Well that would make him really unique, wouldn't it I wonder if the Labour Party will ever latch onto this scam

I don't agree with everything Snowball posts but some of the sh*t he takes on here beggars belief and often comes from those who should have the brains to know better.

Unlike the vast majority of posters, myself included, he invariably backs up his views with stats. You may not like them, they may not be perfect but, nevertheless, it's a damn site more than most of us provide.

In this instance, the point he makes is both obvious and very relevant but clearly doesn't sit well with the doommongers.

In Long and Mills we lost 2 major players last summer and this was a major factor in yet another slow start to the campaign. As Snowballs stats clearly show, since getting our act together with the usual rebuilding and new players bedding in, few teams have been in better form than us....................and there is nothing wrong with using our last 22? games to illustrate this point.

Congratulations on taking my point completely out of context.

As has been repeated by other posters lots of times on this thread alone, it is not the content of Snowball's posts that grate, but more the tone that they are written in.

If he was able to write with even a slight acknowledgement of the fact that he may be wrong, and views other than his own are worthy of some consideration, then he would be a whole lot more popular on this board.

I could have used other quotes but chose yours because, in any context, there is nothing wrong with using those stats which best illustrate the point you are making.

In this case, it's blindingly obvious that, since our poor start, to have risen as high as fourth in the table we must have been in excellent form since and, anyone wishing to highlight this point would use our form since around September rather than the last 6 games or most of the other silly suggestions above.

I've never seen this board as popularity contest and surely Snowballs only possible crime here would be in illustrating that which should be obvious without his stats.

[Snowball]

If you're strike pairing aren't getting 1 goal in 3 then you have to reevaluate imo. Church wont ever be that consistent, so he can run along. Alfie can be and has been, and should be partnering Roberts, with Hunt, who also fails in the consistency ratings, should provide back-up off the bench.

Personally my instincts are (with Roberts) >> Alf

but the rest of your statement, the first 27 games, doesn't really hold up

[leicsRoyal]

Amazing the difference between a comma being there and not being there

Grammar never my strong point, you've lost me. Sorry did I interrupt or had you finished your sentence?

[leicsRoyal]

And Long is in the Prem

I am not sure how to respond to that?

Not complicated. Shane was awesome last year and got into the Prem. He is two years older than Church.


Church, just 23, is currently at a Championship club, top scorer, and has two years to achieve Shane's status.

But even if he DOESN'T, as long as he trains on and improve, he'll be a more than decent Chapionship striker



PS I am NOT a fan of Church, just stating the facts[/quote]

Take your point but will Church ever get a better time to step up than the first 6 months of this season?

[rfc2001]

Christ this thread makes church look like our best striker. Stats are pointless when you can see who contributes more and who does not. Church can have all the best stats in the world but at the end of the day he ain't our best striker and he ain't good enough.

[leicsRoyal]

Christ this thread makes church look like our best striker. Stats are pointless when you can see who contributes more and who does not. Church can have all the best stats in the world but at the end of the day he ain't our best striker and he ain't good enough.

^^ this

[Cobi]

Christ this thread makes church look like our best striker. Stats are pointless when you can see who contributes more and who does not. Church can have all the best stats in the world but at the end of the day he ain't our best striker and he ain't good enough.

^^ this

Again ^^ this.

He is terrible. I'm genuinely disappointed when I see him either start or come off the bench, especially when we have a natural finisher that just cries out for good service in Adam Le Fondre.

[Dare to Dr£am]

Christ this thread makes church look like our best striker. Stats are pointless when you can see who contributes more and who does not. Church can have all the best stats in the world but at the end of the day he ain't our best striker and he ain't good enough.

^^ this

Again ^^ this.

He is terrible. I'm genuinely disappointed when I see him either start or come off the bench, especially when we have a natural finisher that just cries out for good service in Adam Le Fondre.

THIS