The Snowball stat thread

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Snowball
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:04

Maguire
Platypuss has wrapped this one up for me but it's a pleasure to reply anyway.

276/0 is undefined, it is certainly not "infinity" as he has illustrated. You're completely and utterly wrong, simple as that.



That may be your interpretation, fine.

I was taught as I described, that division was a series of subtractions, and you can take 0 from 276 an infinite amount of times, and therefore, I, like many people, say 276/0 is infinite.

"Undefined" is used simply because 276/0 is considered impossible and X times 0 is always zero

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Wycombe Royal
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Wycombe Royal » 08 Feb 2012 12:04


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Maguire
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Maguire » 08 Feb 2012 12:07

Snowball
Maguire
Platypuss has wrapped this one up for me but it's a pleasure to reply anyway.

276/0 is undefined, it is certainly not "infinity" as he has illustrated. You're completely and utterly wrong, simple as that.



That may be your interpretation, fine


Not my interpretation, it's the laws of mathematics

Snowball I, like many people, say 276/0 is infinite


And you, like many people, are wrong.

Numbers clearly aren't your strong suit so if there's anything else you need help with, just give me a shout. Every day's a school day.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:12

If you graph 276/X as X approaches zero the curve NEVER reaches the axis.

To all intents and purposes that "means" 276/0 = infinity

Definitions, usages of words may change, but I was taught in that nice
simple old-fashioned "taking-away" model, that since you could minus
zero an infinite number of times, 1/0 was infinity.

http://www.philforhumanity.com/How_to_D ... _Zero.html

I like his conclusion, same as my Maths Teacher's

Any number divided by zero is ±∞ and undefined.

However in practicality, any number divided by zero is just undefined.

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Platypuss
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Platypuss » 08 Feb 2012 12:17

Watch out, Snowy's gone to check out Euler.

Holy monolithic C&P dump batman!


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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:17

Mags, tell me this

276/276 is?

276/1 is?

276/.1 2,760

276/.000000000001 is 276,000,000,00,000

You can keep making that decimal smaller and the answer is ever-larger

I'm totally happy with my use of language in this case. Nothing to do with inability with numbers, just a view, just terminology.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:18

Anyway, chat among yourselves. I'm interested in when strikers score.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Wycombe Royal » 08 Feb 2012 12:20

Snowball Anyway, chat among yourselves. I'm interested in when strikers score.

That's about as close to an admission of being wrong as Snowball has ever made.........

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by winchester_royal » 08 Feb 2012 12:20

Wait, is Snowball wrong by every measure available, and still not admitting it? This has never happened before. :shock:


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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:25

1/0 is "infinity" as far as I'm concerned, Winch.

It was what I was taught, using the explanation that division is multiple subtractions.

It makes logical sense, and I'm happy with that.

I have this unusual feature. I can think for myself.

I'm happy with that belief. I don't consider this a case of right and wrong.

Y'know, I DO understand that you can't divide something by zero, but, as I say,
I was taught that was "Because any number divided by zero is infinity."

You and your childish friends may take the piss for as long
as you like with every tenth post being Ian Royal with an erection
posting a me-too smiley.

It won't change anything.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Wycombe Royal » 08 Feb 2012 12:30

So if when you were at school you were taught that the earth was flat would you still believe that, even though it had been proved otherwise?

Just because you were taught something at school (and that was a lot longer ago than nearly everyone on here) it doesn't mean that what you were taught is still correct.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Platypuss » 08 Feb 2012 12:30

Snowball Anyway, chat among yourselves. I'm interested in when strikers score.

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Maguire
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Maguire » 08 Feb 2012 12:31

Your lack of grace when proven incorrect appears, somewhat ironically, to be infinite.

Class is over, let's get back to football.


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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:35

Wycombe Royal So if when you were at school you were taught that the earth was flat would you still believe that, even though it had been proved otherwise?

Just because you were taught something at school (and that was a lot longer ago than nearly everyone on here) it doesn't mean that what you were taught is still correct.


I've explained myself. Don't need to explain it again.

Division by zero is the operation of taking the quotient of any number x and 0, i.e., x/0.

The uniqueness of division breaks down when dividing by zero, since the product 0·y=0 is the same for any y,
so y cannot be recovered by inverting the process of multiplication. 0 is the only number with this property
and, as a result, division by zero is undefined for real numbers and can produce a fatal condition called
a "division by zero error" in computer programs.

To the persistent but misguided reader who insists on asking "What happens if I do divide by zero,"
Derbyshire (2004, p. 36) provides the slightly flippant but firm and concise response, "You can't.
It's against the rules." Even in fields other than the real numbers, division by zero is never allowed (Derbyshire 2004, p. 266).

There are, however, contexts in which division by zero can be considered as defined.

For example, division by zero z/0 for z in C^*!=0 in the extended complex plane C-* is defined to be a quantity known as complex infinity.

This definition expresses the fact that, for z!=0, lim_(w->0)z/w=infty (i.e., complex infinity).

However, even though the formal statement 1/0=infty is permitted in C-*, note that this does not mean that 1=0·infinity. Zero does not have a multiplicative inverse under any circumstances.

Although division by zero is not defined for reals, limits involving division by a real quantity x which approaches zero may in fact be well-defined.

For example,
lim_(x->0)(sinx)/x=1.

Of course, such limits may also approach infinity,
lim_(x->0^+)1/x=infty.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:36

Maguire Your lack of grace when proven incorrect appears, somewhat ironically, to be infinite.

Class is over, let's get back to football.


Sweet FA to do with "lack of grace"

It's to do with basic beliefs. Since we can't really define zero or infinity

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Platypuss » 08 Feb 2012 12:37

Platypuss Holy monolithic C&P dump batman!


Vindic8ed

Good luck with justifying that Cauchy principal values should be used to calculate the chances of Church shinning one over the line in the next 5 games.

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Maguire
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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Maguire » 08 Feb 2012 12:38

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DivisionbyZero.html

in case anyone cares where he's copying it all from

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:43

Wycombe Royal So if when you were at school you were taught that the
earth was flat would you still believe that, even though it had been proved otherwise?



No, what I'd then do is review the "proof" and compare its efficacy with the original teaching.

I don't see any "proofs" that X can't be divided by 0

All I see is things like, "It wouldn't be reversible", "0 is a special case." "Therefore it's undefined."

How is that a PROOF?

I DO know that if you divide 276 by a tiny decimal like

0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001

you get a massively large number

And I know that as that dividing tiny decimal (Y) approaches zero, the number generated approaches infinity.

The fact we can't get to infinity? I couldn't give a sh!t about.


I don't consider this a case of right-wrong OR poor education" or "out of date" views.

I consider it a trivial difference of opinion over terminology.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Bandini » 08 Feb 2012 12:45

I'm not sure where we go from here. Like many other nobbers, I had factored in Snowball's various biases in the way in which he presented his stats, and the data that he chose to put into them, but I had assumed that underlying all of that was a basic mathematical rigour upon which we could rely.

This is all very alarming.

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Re: When the Strikers Score etc

by Snowball » 08 Feb 2012 12:47

Bandini I'm not sure where we go from here. Like many other nobbers, I had factored in Snowball's various biases in the way in which he presented his stats, and the data that he chose to put into them, but I had assumed that underlying all of that was a basic mathematical rigour upon which we could rely.

This is all very alarming.



Yeah, right. Like higher maths is REALLY important in totalling
goals scored and minutes played.

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