Back from the game - Newcastle

[Platypuss]

Agreed with the above - just very unfortunate that we get the one ref who actually gets 100% right when the vast, vast majority of others would get it wrong.

I think you give him too much credit - he probably just missed it and therefore had no decision to make.

[Royal Prince]

I always thought that for handball to be an offence it had to be deliberate, and it there was no intent then play goes on.

So the question surely is not whether Marriner saw it, but whether he thinks it was deliberate.

FWIW I can't believe anyone in the world has reflexes quick enough to punch the ball in in that situation having just missed the header.

So, although no-one will agree with me because most people here love to wallow in a good sense of injustice, I have complaints -ball hit hand, no intent, play on.

The problem here is that nowhere in the handbook does it clearly define 'deliberate'. Most refs would apply the following rules when reaching their decision:

-Did the players hand travel towards the ball?
-Was the hand in an un-natural position?
-Over what distance did the ball travel before striking the player?

Points one and two are debatable in this instance, but I think it's fair to say he didn't punch the ball deliberately and his arm was in a natural position being that he was balancing himself for the header. In regards to the last point however, the ball clearly travelled some distance before striking Demba Ba.

For me you also have to ask 'was an unfair advantage gained from handling the ball?'... no debate here!

[phil in cornwall]

The problem with the handball goal was that it was very hard to see. We were sitting behind the goal and we didn't see it so I have every sympathy with the referee. No spectators around us shouted for handball - we were just wondering what the protests were about.

The first time I saw what really happened was on Match of the Day. The ref needs some help.

PS In case you are wondering ... yes, it is possible to watch a Saturday afternoon game at the Mad Stad and drive home to Penzance in time for MOTD ... just.

[melonhead]

at last a proper game of football, where the proper reading turned up, playing the way we know we can.
the performance was everything yesterday, just really glad we went out and did our stuff.so proud of the boys, and pleased that McD had started to turn things around
shame about the handball goal, but both their goals were poorly defended, and ba's 1st was a cracking finish.

mcarthy- 8 could do nowt with either goal, came out and commanded his 6 yard box well.
cuummings- 8 athletic, strong, quick. they boy is mustard
gorkss/mariappa-7 snaffled everything for most of the game, but fell asleep twice, and were punished(muist say i think pearce is very unlucky to have lost his place)
shorey- 8 good as i remember, glad to have him back
kebe-8still short of fitness and touch, but causes chaos
jobi-9captains performance
karacan 9 never stopped- love him
ledgertwood7coped well with the newcastle midfield
pog-7never stopped working
hunt superb8

[Royal Biscuitman]

A return to 4-4-2 and with Leigerwood and Karacan in the middle and suddenly the midfield knows what to do and how to do it.

Karacan was outstanding, Cummings is seriously underated, Shorey looked like the old Nicky Shorey, Kebe was caught out a few times but definitely a big plus having him in the side, Jobi had a good game too. We're also looking good up front, Roberts maybe needs a game or two and chances like he had will go in.

I left the game feeling positive, We were unlucky not to come away with 3 points.

The manager has shown he isn't afraid to change things around (although maybe a game or two too late).

Was Guthrie injured or just dropped?

[melonhead]

was on the bench, so hes fine

[Royal Ginger]

A return to 4-4-2 and with Leigerwood and Karacan in the middle and suddenly the midfield knows what to do and how to do it.

Karacan was outstanding, Cummings is seriously underated, Shorey looked like the old Nicky Shorey, Kebe was caught out a few times but definitely a big plus having him in the side, Jobi had a good game too. We're also looking good up front, Roberts maybe needs a game or two and chances like he had will go in.

I left the game feeling positive, We were unlucky not to come away with 3 points.

The manager has shown he isn't afraid to change things around (although maybe a game or two too late).

Was Guthrie injured or just dropped?

Just dropped, then sort of whinged about it on twitter.

[Royal Biscuitman]

was on the bench, so hes fine

I must have missed his name being called out

I must admit to being surprised not to see him play, New signings tend to do well against their former clubs.

[LUX]

LUX BACK FRROM THE GAME

but it's all already been said

Couple of points to add.

a. I was behind the goal Ba scored in and none of us saw the handball (which was handball, of course).
b. very impressed with that performance, but all depends on how good Newcastle really are. Pog and Hunt were a real handful (andTaylor going off was a godsend for us). But Le Fondre and Roberts looked the part too.
c. Impressed by Mariappa and Cummings too. Love Gorkks, but want him to get his Grrrrrrrr beard back;

RTG rule

[harryroyal]

I always thought that for handball to be an offence it had to be deliberate, and it there was no intent then play goes on.

So the question surely is not whether Marriner saw it, but whether he thinks it was deliberate.

FWIW I can't believe anyone in the world has reflexes quick enough to punch the ball in in that situation having just missed the header.

So, although no-one will agree with me because most people here love to wallow in a good sense of injustice, I have complaints -ball hit hand, no intent, play on.

It doesn't matter if it's deliberate or not, it is whether the hands are in a natural position. Fifa/fa tell refs to interpret this as if the hands are down by the side it is not a natural position. SO i suspect the ref just didn't see the handball. Tbf to the ref at the angle he was at he probably couldn't tell whether the ball actually touched his arm.

[Royal Ginger]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/ ... 34x405.jpg

Not a terrible angle...

[creative_username_1]

The team that got us up + 1 or 2 additions, see how it goes for a bit

[Cypry]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/29/article-2210373-154487DA000005DC-684_634x405.jpg

Not a terrible angle...

Pretty irrefutable, Ba even admitted as such on MotD, but that image does make you wonder how the ref missed it.

For the ball to appear to the right of Ba it can only have got a glancing header, which would sent the ball to McCarthys left. However, the handball completely changed the angle of the ball sending it to McCarthys right.....hard to understand how he could miss that....

[Maguire]

So, although no-one will agree with me because most people here love to wallow in a good sense of injustice, I have complaints -ball hit hand, no intent, play on.

I think the main reason nobody will agree with you is because you're totally wrong. It was plainly handball and if the ref had seen it then he would've given it as such. There's no case to be made that it should have been allowed to stand.

I don't blame the ref though - happened quickly and very few people noticed.

[RoyalBlue]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/29/article-2210373-154487DA000005DC-684_634x405.jpg

Not a terrible angle...

Pretty irrefutable, Ba even admitted as such on MotD, but that image does make you wonder how the ref missed it.

For the ball to appear to the right of Ba it can only have got a glancing header, which would sent the ball to McCarthys left. However, the handball completely changed the angle of the ball sending it to McCarthys right.....hard to understand how he could miss that....

That's a valid point. He may have had some doubt whether the ball hit the hand (looking from behind he would only see the ball in front of hand so difficult to be sure of contact). However, the change in direction of the ball should have made him realise it hit something after Ba's head and that can only have been his hand. Maybe another example of ref's not having played the game enough?

Also question why the assistant didn't spot anything. Was Gorkss blocking his view or is Marriner one of those refs who declines assistance from his assistants?

[Once were Biscuitmen]

It was the pace of the cross, I was at that end and had no idea it was a handball.

The flight of the ball seemed to be as you would expect from a glancing header as well.

Oxford happens, best move on.

[ReadingJim]

Been said already but... what a magnificent and spirited performance. Can't believe the early leavers though - ffs, yeah go and get to your car if it's a crap match and a foregone conclusion but come on - this was an absolute nail-biter to the end.

If we continue to play with this much heart, our time will come very soon.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

Echo most of the earlier sentiments. Thought Shorey and Cummings really looked up for it. I can only remember one cross or set piece not clearing the first man (and that may have been Kebe) - so a massive improvement on Gunter and Harte.

Mariappa looks more mobile and more athletic than Gorkss or Pearce, but if I was being picky I'd say he was guilty of giving the ball away a couple of times (as he did at QPR), and maybe switching off for the first goal. I think he'll settle down though.

As people have said the second goal was bundled in and looked like it could have even been an own goal. I thought the players that were arguing with the ref were complaining about a foul that should have been given near the halfway line (on Jobi?). If only there were a few less Newcastle fans in the hoem side of the South Stand - we might have shouted "handball" loud enough for the ref not to give it...

I came away feeling positive (as i did after the QPR game), but on reflection it's bittersweet really. Other than Ben Arfa, Tiote, Ba and Cisse - that was a pretty run of the mill Newcastle side that were absolutely there for the taking. I hope in the long term it can be seen as a stepping stone performance, and not the day we dropped the two points that sent us down.

[MouldyRoyal]

Why are people still surprised that Cummings is excellent?

This.

Cummings didn't have a bad game all last season. He is a decent player despite his dodgy start to his Reading career.

Played very well on saturday, got forward well, defended as solidly as ever, was crossing the ball in with both feet.

I was disappointed he wasn't given a chance at the start of the season at RB, Brian seems to not rate him too much he drops him so much! The guy can play though.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Why are people still surprised that Cummings is excellent?

This.

Cummings didn't have a bad game all last season. He is a decent player despite his dodgy start to his Reading career.

Played very well on saturday, got forward well, defended as solidly as ever, was crossing the ball in with both feet.

I was disappointed he wasn't given a chance at the start of the season at RB, Brian seems to not rate him too much he drops him so much! The guy can play though.

More importantly, him and Kebe make a good partnership. Its all about the pairs

That team on Saturday had excellent pairs all over