Reading eyeing up move for Thomas Hitzlsperger

[RedRum]

both of which have 3 years on him, cant really see jem getting much better than he already is, as for williams, time will tell

Despite the fact that Jem has improved massively since Adkins has come in

[melonhead]

hardly in the game on saturday tbf

[Royal Ginger]

He's too much like an excited puppy around strangers in midfield. He should've been a right-back.

[M Brook]

both of which have 3 years on him, cant really see jem getting much better than he already is, as for williams, time will tell

Despite the fact that Jem has improved massively since Adkins has come in

Has he? I'm not so sure. In fact, I would suggest that he is less than a season away from earning the dreaded 'Never quite fulfilled his early promise' tag. I increasingly think that, like Church, he is a player who would benefit from a fresh start elsewhere. Sadly.

[Handsome Man]

both of which have 3 years on him, cant really see jem getting much better than he already is, as for williams, time will tell

Despite the fact that Jem has improved massively since Adkins has come in

Has he? I'm not so sure. In fact, I would suggest that he is less than a season away from earning the dreaded 'Never quite fulfilled his early promise' tag. I increasingly think that, like Church, he is a player who would benefit from a fresh start elsewhere. Sadly.

He didn't seem comfy in the give-the-ball-to-Guthrie role, and his place must be threatened by Williams, but he will play very well for us, I am sure, this year.

[UpThePrem]

He's too much like an excited puppy around strangers in midfield. He should've been a right-back.

Can't agree more. The only game I saw him at right back was at Millwall two years ago and IMHO, it was the best game i've seen him in.

He tries hard, breaks up play well but never quite produces anything in the attacking half of the pitch. I can't remember one killer through ball or piece of skill from him in the last three years thats resulted in a goal. Williams ahead of him all the way.

[melonhead]

karacan had an average game on sat. and williams looked good when he came on for a bit.

but karacan looked to have improved his passing and all round game in the last few games of last season.
and every player will always put in alot of extra effort for his first appearance.

so lets just chill out before declaring karacans career over, or williams to be the new yaya toure.

[RedRum]

karacan had an average game on sat. and williams looked good when he came on for a bit.

but karacan looked to have improved his passing and all round game in the last few games of last season.
and every player will always put in alot of extra effort for his first appearance.

so lets just chill out before declaring karacans career over, or williams to be the new yaya toure.

This. Karacan was making round about 90% passing completion by the end of last season and shone in pre-season. Agree that we shouldn't doubt his ability because of one average game compared to someone who made a (albeit impressive) 20 minute cameo

[readingfc13]

I can't remember one killer through ball or piece of skill from him in the last three years thats resulted in a goal. Williams ahead of him all the way.

What about his through ball for ALF's goal away at Fulham last season?

[From Despair To Where?]

I can't remember one killer through ball or piece of skill from him in the last three years thats resulted in a goal. Williams ahead of him all the way.

What about his through ball for ALF's goal away at Fulham last season?

And Church's goal at Elland Rd 2 seasons ago, although I agree, Williams is the better player.

[Ian Royal]

karacan had an average game on sat. and williams looked good when he came on for a bit.

but karacan looked to have improved his passing and all round game in the last few games of last season.
and every player will always put in alot of extra effort for his first appearance.

so lets just chill out before declaring karacans career over, or williams to be the new yaya toure.

My problem with Karacan is I just wonder whether he's bright enough to really perform in midfield.

Under McDermott he seemed to have a bit of a midfield terrier role. But that involved him just running around like a headless chicken and hooking the ball high and forward at the first opportunity. I hope that wasn't the intention, or if it was taht he could have done more with it.
Under Adkins he had a couple of much better games last season, but seems now to have been asked to play as a deeper distributer and spends his entire time making pointless 5 yard passes that gain nothing. I hope that isn't the intention or that he would do more than just that.

At least that was my impression from pre-season and some of the comments from Ipswich.

[Cripple Creek]

I agree that Jem has right back written all over him. He is good in the Richie Bowman type role but, unfortunately, not as good as Bowman was. That's a reference for other oldies like myself.

[melonhead]

karacan had an average game on sat. and williams looked good when he came on for a bit.

but karacan looked to have improved his passing and all round game in the last few games of last season.
and every player will always put in alot of extra effort for his first appearance.

so lets just chill out before declaring karacans career over, or williams to be the new yaya toure.

My problem with Karacan is I just wonder whether he's bright enough to really perform in midfield.

Under McDermott he seemed to have a bit of a midfield terrier role. But that involved him just running around like a headless chicken and hooking the ball high and forward at the first opportunity. I hope that wasn't the intention, or if it was taht he could have done more with it.
Under Adkins he had a couple of much better games last season, but seems now to have been asked to play as a deeper distributer and spends his entire time making pointless 5 yard passes that gain nothing. I hope that isn't the intention or that he would do more than just that.

At least that was my impression from pre-season and some of the comments from Ipswich.

5 yard passes arent pointless. keeping teh ball moving, letting it do alot of teh work, and moving opposition players around/tiring them out.

[paddy20]

The key to the passing game is not the original passer (any player can pass) but that he passes to someone who can retain it and forward it to another player who is in a dangerous position. Its a triangle. The teams that retain possession win most games. That means that often the deep midfielder does the boring bit. The key is the receiver of the 3rd pass. He must have a good brain to be able to run into space in a good position. Don't know whether we have that person. The ideal exponent was of course Gylvi.

[Millsy]

My problem with Karacan is I just wonder whether he's bright enough to really perform in midfield.

Under McDermott he seemed to have a bit of a midfield terrier role. But that involved him just running around like a headless chicken and hooking the ball high and forward at the first opportunity. I hope that wasn't the intention, or if it was taht he could have done more with it.
Under Adkins he had a couple of much better games last season, but seems now to have been asked to play as a deeper distributer and spends his entire time making pointless 5 yard passes that gain nothing. I hope that isn't the intention or that he would do more than just that.

At least that was my impression from pre-season and some of the comments from Ipswich.

5 yard passes arent pointless. keeping teh ball moving, letting it do alot of teh work, and moving opposition players around/tiring them out.

Hello Harper

[Ian Royal]

karacan had an average game on sat. and williams looked good when he came on for a bit.

but karacan looked to have improved his passing and all round game in the last few games of last season.
and every player will always put in alot of extra effort for his first appearance.

so lets just chill out before declaring karacans career over, or williams to be the new yaya toure.

My problem with Karacan is I just wonder whether he's bright enough to really perform in midfield.

Under McDermott he seemed to have a bit of a midfield terrier role. But that involved him just running around like a headless chicken and hooking the ball high and forward at the first opportunity. I hope that wasn't the intention, or if it was taht he could have done more with it.
Under Adkins he had a couple of much better games last season, but seems now to have been asked to play as a deeper distributer and spends his entire time making pointless 5 yard passes that gain nothing. I hope that isn't the intention or that he would do more than just that.

At least that was my impression from pre-season and some of the comments from Ipswich.

5 yard passes arent pointless. keeping teh ball moving, letting it do alot of teh work, and moving opposition players around/tiring them out.

5 yard passes don't have to be pointless. But when they're between three static people all standing close together with the opposition standing off and watching, so don't tire them out and don't engineer any space, they absolutely are. That's what I saw Jem doing in preseason. Like he'd been told to link up with the back 4 and play short passes, and not really understood why or how to do it.

[Millsy]

Ian i see what you're saying but that sort of play ends up creating space as inevitably the opposition pushes up a little as it annoys them and space is created through which you can attack. Happens all the time.

But you need not to be winning to do it I guess! I don't know how useful it is if the opposition is quite happy with the score as it stands.

I think I'd rather we keep hold of the ball than aimlessly lose it, which was our biggest downfall last season.

Still I'm not pro or anti Karacan, just posting for the sake of it haha

[Ian Royal]

Ian i see what you're saying but that sort of play ends up creating space as inevitably the opposition pushes up a little as it annoys them and space is created through which you can attack. Happens all the time.

But you need not to be winning to do it I guess! I don't know how useful it is if the opposition is quite happy with the score as it stands.

I think I'd rather we keep hold of the ball than aimlessly lose it, which was our biggest downfall last season.

Still I'm not pro or anti Karacan, just posting for the sake of it haha

No, the sort of play I'm talking about is utterly utterly worthless. The play you describe is doing it properly and purposefully.

[paultheroyal]

Oh god, here we go, the bi annual Karacan at right back debate.

[Millsy]

Oh god, here we go, the bi annual Karacan at right back debate.

Yeah we're right back to where we started.