The Frank Lampard tribute thread.

[Extended-Phenotype]

No beef-o, why do you think Lampard has been unable to translate his obvious quality at Chelsea, into international football?

[Big Foot]

England Player of the Year (2): 2004, 2005
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament

England 2nd highest midfielder in the goalscoring charts
2nd top scorer for the most recent qualification campaign

[No Fixed Abode]

England Player of the Year (2): 2004, 2005
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament

England 2nd highest midfielder in the goalscoring charts
2nd top scorer for the most recent qualification campaign

Not forgetting he created more chances than any other England player in the recent qualifying campaign.

[stealthpapes]

England Player of the Year (2): 2004, 2005
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament

England 2nd highest midfielder in the goalscoring charts
2nd top scorer for the most recent qualification campaign

That doesn't quite answer the question. Only one of those is compared to non-England players. Given that England have been pretty much mediocre in the time he's played for them, that just states that he's been one of the best of a pretty mediocre bunch.

I made the same point wrt Scholes - that he has been the best English midfielder in terms of outputs for a decade is hard to argue against. That his personal success has not dragged England further, it does raise the some slightly trickier questions.

[Extended-Phenotype]

He had a decent Euro 2004 and faired well in the qualifiers after that. But you'd have to be pretty blinkered to say Lampard plays well for England or has had a decent tournament since 2004.

2006 he was one of, if not the worst player in an England shirt.

He was so bad during 2008 that McClaren dropped him in favour of Gareth Barry, resulting in back-to-back victories, a run which ended the minute Lampard stepped back into the team.

In 2010 you barely noticed he even travelled until the disallowed goal in the last game.

In 2012 he was again earmarked by the British Press as one of our worst performers.


I appreciate that Lampard is not alone at failing to meet the hype that his club fans afford him when stepping onto the world stage and he is in no way a bad footballer - I was just genuinely interested if his fans can offer reasonable explanations for their hero's rather dire international form.

I'm not particularly satisfied by scoring stats; he was England's penalty taker for a long time for one. But essentially you want your midfielders to do more than just kick it hard at goal, even if that does get a result here and there. I want a midfielder dominating the field, spreading passes about accurately, opening up defences, keeping the teams shape and holding on to possession. He hasn't ever really been able to do this for England bar a few games nearly a decade ago.

Just wondered why you thought this might be.

[No Fixed Abode]

He had a decent Euro 2004 and faired well in the qualifiers after that. But you'd have to be pretty blinkered to say Lampard plays well for England or has had a decent tournament since 2004.

2006 he was one of, if not the worst player in an England shirt.

He was so bad during 2008 that McClaren dropped him in favour of Gareth Barry, resulting in back-to-back victories, a run which ended the minute Lampard stepped back into the team.

In 2010 you barely noticed he even travelled until the disallowed goal in the last game.

In 2012 he was again earmarked by the British Press as one of our worst performers.


I appreciate that Lampard is not alone at failing to meet the hype that his club fans afford him when stepping onto the world stage and he is in no way a bad footballer - I was just genuinely interested if his fans can offer reasonable explanations for their hero's rather dire international form.

I'm not particularly satisfied by scoring stats; he was England's penalty taker for a long time for one. But essentially you want your midfielders to do more than just kick it hard at goal, even if that does get a result here and there. I want a midfielder dominating the field, spreading passes about accurately, opening up defences, keeping the teams shape and holding on to possession. He hasn't ever really been able to do this for England bar a few games nearly a decade ago.

Just wondered why you thought this might be.

2nd highest scorer in qualifying and created the most chances. And you want to take that out of the team?

[soggy biscuit]

How on earth are you defining 'created the most chances' as most goals require a numbers of players to link up well both on and off the ball to create a chance (I am assuming you are not 14 years old and have bought into assist stats btw)

[Extended-Phenotype]

He had a decent Euro 2004 and faired well in the qualifiers after that. But you'd have to be pretty blinkered to say Lampard plays well for England or has had a decent tournament since 2004.

2006 he was one of, if not the worst player in an England shirt.

He was so bad during 2008 that McClaren dropped him in favour of Gareth Barry, resulting in back-to-back victories, a run which ended the minute Lampard stepped back into the team.

In 2010 you barely noticed he even travelled until the disallowed goal in the last game.

In 2012 he was again earmarked by the British Press as one of our worst performers.


I appreciate that Lampard is not alone at failing to meet the hype that his club fans afford him when stepping onto the world stage and he is in no way a bad footballer - I was just genuinely interested if his fans can offer reasonable explanations for their hero's rather dire international form.

I'm not particularly satisfied by scoring stats; he was England's penalty taker for a long time for one. But essentially you want your midfielders to do more than just kick it hard at goal, even if that does get a result here and there. I want a midfielder dominating the field, spreading passes about accurately, opening up defences, keeping the teams shape and holding on to possession. He hasn't ever really been able to do this for England bar a few games nearly a decade ago.

Just wondered why you thought this might be.

2nd highest scorer in qualifying and created the most chances. And you want to take that out of the team?

That's not what I said or asked though, mate. Honestly - see if you can answer the question; I ask it in peace.

[No Fixed Abode]

How on earth are you defining 'created the most chances' as most goals require a numbers of players to link up well both on and off the ball to create a chance (I am assuming you are not 14 years old and have bought into assist stats btw)

Exactly what I said. Lampard created more chances than any other England player in qualification. So, if the player set up by Frank doesn't score, it's Franks fault?

[Extended-Phenotype]

He scored 4 goals, two of which were penalties. I mean, well done and all but penalties aren't a reflection of how well you played in a game. Two goals from open play puts him equal with Oxlade-Chamberlain who only played a couple of games and Gerrard who you don't rate at all - so goals aren't really a strong argument for his form here.

Can you provide a link to this assist stat you talk of? That would be a better indicator. Still doesn't answer the original question though.

[soggy biscuit]

How on earth are you defining 'created the most chances' as most goals require a numbers of players to link up well both on and off the ball to create a chance (I am assuming you are not 14 years old and have bought into assist stats btw)

Exactly what I said. Lampard created more chances than any other England player in qualification.

I asked how this was being defined, not just to say the same vague sentence again

Going to do it or dodge the question for a 2nd time?

http://m.dictionary.com/definition/defined?linkid=ibc5yn&srcpage=home&site=dictwap

[No Fixed Abode]

He scored 4 goals, two of which were penalties. I mean, well done and all but penalties aren't a reflection of how well you played in a game. Two goals from open play puts him equal with Oxlade-Chamberlain who only played a couple of games and Gerrard who you don't rate at all - so goals aren't really a strong argument for his form here.

Can you provide a link to this assist stat you talk of? That would be a better indicator. Still doesn't answer the original question though.

So he scored more goals than 25/30 other players used in qualification

Assists aren't the same as chances created - hth.

[stealthpapes]

fwiw, Soggy, I've read elsewhere that "touches in moves that lead to a chance" is what the proper stat chaps actually use ahead of assists nowadays. That and touches/passes in the final third.

[soggy biscuit]

fwiw, Soggy, I've read elsewhere that "touches in moves that lead to a chance" is what the proper stat chaps actually use ahead of assists nowadays. That and touches/passes in the final third.

Thanks for that. Have genuinely wondered what they use to work this out in the past, though personally I still think sticking one persons name against the assist is more often than not either misleading or even misunderstanding what happened to create the goal.

Post above yours Kes is suggesting he is not using this anyway. Just interested to know what he is using to reach his answer.

[Extended-Phenotype]

He scored 4 goals, two of which were penalties. I mean, well done and all but penalties aren't a reflection of how well you played in a game. Two goals from open play puts him equal with Oxlade-Chamberlain who only played a couple of games and Gerrard who you don't rate at all - so goals aren't really a strong argument for his form here.

Can you provide a link to this assist stat you talk of? That would be a better indicator. Still doesn't answer the original question though.

So he scored more goals than 25/30 other players used in qualification

Assists aren't the same as chances created - hth.

Two goals in open play during the 2014 qualifiers don't discredit the criticism aimed at him that he has not managed to translate his club form consistently onto the world stage and don't answer my question of why that is.

RE: assists; apologies - please provide a link to that stat (chances created) instead then, thanks - that would indeed be a better indicator.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Predictably mute. Oh well.

Goal vs Moldova
Penalty vs Moldova
Penalty vs Ukraine
Goal in open play against San Marino


I’m not saying that the above isn’t something to praise. I’m not saying the above is something every other England international managed to achieve. I’m saying these four goals, of which only two were in open play and against part-time footballers in 5-0 and 8-0 drubbings, do not demonstrate that Lampard has managed to translate his form at Chelsea onto the world stage - which was my original question that you don't seem able to answer.

Looking forward to a link regarding Lampard's "chances created".

Cheers,
EP

[No Fixed Abode]

Predictably mute. Oh well.

Goal vs Moldova
Penalty vs Moldova
Penalty vs Ukraine
Goal in open play against San Marino


I’m not saying that the above isn’t something to praise. I’m not saying the above is something every other England international managed to achieve. I’m saying these four goals, of which only two were in open play and against part-time footballers in 5-0 and 8-0 drubbings, do not demonstrate that Lampard has managed to translate his form at Chelsea onto the world stage - which was my original question that you don't seem able to answer.

Looking forward to a link regarding Lampard's "chances created".

Cheers,
EP

I've recycled the paper it was in m8. Sorry about that. Rest assured I did mention it at the time. Most chances created and 2nd highest scorer.

[soggy biscuit]

[Extended-Phenotype]

That's ok, I'm sure it should be available online if its true, so I look forward to your link.

Just repeating he is the second highest scorer doesn't answer my question and seems to suggest you aren't really able to digest the fact that two penalties and two goals against minnow sides doesn't prove Lampard has been able to translate his Chelsea form onto the world stage.

Its not a trick question, dunno why such a big fan of his is having so much difficulty confronting it. No problem, happy to notch this up as a win in the absence of any answer.

[No Fixed Abode]

That's ok, I'm sure it should be available online if its true, so I look forward to your link.

Just repeating he is the second highest scorer doesn't answer my question and seems to suggest you aren't really able to digest the fact that two penalties and two goals against minnow sides doesn't prove Lampard has been able to translate his Chelsea form onto the world stage.

Its not a trick question, dunno why such a big fan of his is having so much difficulty confronting it. No problem, happy to notch this up as a win in the absence of any answer.

Facts are facts. Your opinion means nothing.