How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

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Longhorn1970
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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Longhorn1970 » 24 Feb 2016 17:31

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Ian Royal
One8Seven1* I'm still bemused by his tactics. How can you play one up front at home against Rotherham, especially when we have nothing to play for in the league? Stick with a formation that works, use it to gain some confidence, momentum and familiarity ready for next season, and try and end the season with a few more highs!

I think it's supposed to be 4-3-3 in attack.

Not there yet, but progress occurring.


Progress in going backwards it seems.


To the sentimentalists and optimists - yes

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Longhorn1970 » 24 Feb 2016 17:32

RoyalJames101
One8Seven1* I'm still bemused by his tactics. How can you play one up front at home against Rotherham, especially when we have nothing to play for in the league? Stick with a formation that works, use it to gain some confidence, momentum and familiarity ready for next season, and try and end the season with a few more highs!


Played the same formation as Saturday. Won both games.


he will have to keep adapting, no one formation will conquer all teams ..

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Longhorn1970 » 24 Feb 2016 17:37

Ian Royal I've got some stuff on team performance I might graph and chuck up here tonight if I can be arsed.


I'd opt for the cba !

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by KC Royal » 24 Feb 2016 19:29

harry
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Extended-Phenotype I reckon the fairest criticism you could lay on McD would be that towards the end of his first stint he didn't seem to trust the team to play another way. 

But even then he's somewhat vindicated by the fact that Adkins and Clarke failed to get Reading playing consistently with a more passing style and on McD's return, with a different team, he has adopted a different style, proving it wasn't his capability that should have been scrutinised. 

 We've shored things up at the back and are now capable of coming from behind and getting back into games: something we were not able to do well under either Adkins or Clarke. 

Baby steps, but positive ones and I'm sure it will continue.‎

I think you can safely say he didn't do a very good job in the top flight (under difficult circumstances), but in retrospect that's hardly surprising for a man with just two and a half year's management experience in professional football, all at one club.


I'd argue that we got into the top flight due his ability to get the best out of a team/squad that in my view massively overachieved. What bugged the hell out of me was that we (the club, the fans) didn't accept that and have more patience. It wasn't as if after sacking him we suddenly turned that season around.


Absolutely, I actually thought we were fortunate to win automatic promotion. What bothered me was those who wanted him sacked but yet Coppell had a car park protest after we got relegated the first time round (which i should say I was in favour of). I'll never understand it, Brian had no previous PL experience whereas Sir Steve did. I would say that Brian getting us relegated wasn't as bad as Sir Steve either. Sir Steve's squad should have stayed up, whereas in 2012-13 I thought we were going down at the end of August, due to a combination of other clubs making signings and us having to play catch up with that Sunderland game postponed (which actually disappointed me more than I thought it would at the time).

Also, there were games under Adkins in the PL that I think we may have got more out of had Brian still been in charge.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by genome » 24 Feb 2016 19:46

KC Royal Absolutely, I actually thought we were fortunate to win automatic promotion.


I wish people would stop saying this. You don't win the league over a 46-game season by luck :lol:


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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by harry » 24 Feb 2016 19:52

KC Royal
harry
Ian Royal I think you can safely say he didn't do a very good job in the top flight (under difficult circumstances), but in retrospect that's hardly surprising for a man with just two and a half year's management experience in professional football, all at one club.


I'd argue that we got into the top flight due his ability to get the best out of a team/squad that in my view massively overachieved. What bugged the hell out of me was that we (the club, the fans) didn't accept that and have more patience. It wasn't as if after sacking him we suddenly turned that season around.


Absolutely, I actually thought we were fortunate to win automatic promotion. What bothered me was those who wanted him sacked but yet Coppell had a car park protest after we got relegated the first time round (which i should say I was in favour of). I'll never understand it, Brian had no previous PL experience whereas Sir Steve did. I would say that Brian getting us relegated wasn't as bad as Sir Steve either. Sir Steve's squad should have stayed up, whereas in 2012-13 I thought we were going down at the end of August, due to a combination of other clubs making signings and us having to play catch up with that Sunderland game postponed (which actually disappointed me more than I thought it would at the time).

Also, there were games under Adkins in the PL that I think we may have got more out of had Brian still been in charge.


I was patient under Nadkins and he had to get his eye in etc etc but the end of that season there was barely a whimper of an attempt to survive. It seemed like everyone was resigned to going down. To my mind we'd have had a better chance of survival if he hadn't been sacked. That's leaving aside the more emotional arguments of not the Reading way, no way to treat a loyal servant, he was effectively sacked for over-achieving the previous season, etc, etc.

Seem to remember a few calling for his head early in the promotion season as well. Remember this?
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2011-2012/table/2011-09-10

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by harry » 24 Feb 2016 20:04

genome
KC Royal Absolutely, I actually thought we were fortunate to win automatic promotion.


I wish people would stop saying this. You don't win the league over a 46-game season by luck :lol:


It was momentum. We were 12th after 20 games coming into the 'Stam game & had gradually risen from lowly 23rd in September as BMcD sussed out how to play with what he had e.g. no Shane Long. I saw that game as the turning point. Ledge running through brick walls, Sockgate, 3-0 trouncing, happy days

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Extended-Phenotype » 24 Feb 2016 22:17

No Fixed Abode I must remember that whoever wins the league isn't the best team as those with a deeper knowledge of the game will know that isn't the case. :lol:


:lol:

Sure, I get it mucks. Points are the aim of the game. But we are analysing improvement here, and you might appreciate others examine more than points to measure this. people at your level enjoy the simplicity of stats, that's cool. Others with a bit more nous find stats inefficient in explaining football at its more intricate level.

Two teams might win their game of football one week giving them both three points. But in reality, the more sophisticated fan appreciates that one of those teams might have played better than the other (better performance, less mistakes, tighter unit, less luck, more skill, tougher opponent, scored more goals, let fewer goals in etc). The points don't tell the whole story. 

Hence, you could be improving without picking up more points. 

Average points is a nice simple way for a basic fan to compare teams/managers. But a more advanced fan would notice if there was a difference in the size of the range. Average points for a team playing one game of football and winning is equal to average points for a team playing the whole season and winning every game. Smarter folk get that the latter is a clearer picture of quality and that a comparison would be more realistic measuring recent form in a range of similar size. That's why you see gamblers looking at last 5 and last 10 stats to work out a teams form, rather than take the average of every game they have ever played.

It's a bit more sophisticated though and it isn't for everybody. But you aren't really getting much out of football if you fail to tap down into the game beyond simple numbers.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Silver Fox » 24 Feb 2016 23:04

No Fixed Abode I'm not the only who doesn't think Reading haven't improved under McDermott.


Nope, you and this Longhorn bloke make quite the partnership


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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Nameless » 25 Feb 2016 07:29

I think those with even a fairly basic knowledge know that it is often not the best team that wins the league. Both Saints and West Ham were better than us when we won the league but we got more points.
Bad teams don't win titles but efficient teams can finish ahead of good footballing teams.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Vision » 25 Feb 2016 07:52

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Will it show that Reading have improved from the dip they had in form but overall they haven't improved under Brian as his points per game is lower?


But he has improved on the form record when he took over.

Whether you take 6 or 8 games as a form guide then his last 6 or 8 are an improvement on Clarke's last 6 or 8 game run.

Stats don't lie Kes.


So the only way it can be proven is points per game for each manager. Thank you. 8)


No but I'm glad to see that you finally admit there's been an improvement even going solely by the stats metric you hold so dear.

Most people with eyes and original thought, who don't have some bizarre agenda, can see there's been improvement. It's not earth shattering of course but you'd have to have your eyes shut tight and your mind completely closed not to see some signs of improvement.

Or you could just be a troll but I'll leave you to decide which of these categories you fall into.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Vision » 25 Feb 2016 07:56

Nameless I think those with even a fairly basic knowledge know that it is often not the best team that wins the league. Both Saints and West Ham were better than us when we won the league but we got more points.
Bad teams don't win titles but efficient teams can finish ahead of good footballing teams.


In what way were Saints and West Ham better than us that season.?

You'd probably have to define "good footballing team" too. Good luck with that ;-)

Even better better luck with making a convincing argument that a Sam Allardyce side fits into your definition ;-)

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Extended-Phenotype » 25 Feb 2016 08:07

A quick scan of the Chelsea thread shows that, with kes's relentless ref grumbling, he agrees with me the better team can lose the game and therefore you can't judge performances on points alone. So it's all good. 8)


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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Platypuss » 25 Feb 2016 08:41

No Fixed Abode I'm not the only who doesn't think Reading haven't improved under McDermott.


And that's NEMSA!

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Maneki Neko
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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Maneki Neko » 25 Feb 2016 09:10

genome
KC Royal Absolutely, I actually thought we were fortunate to win automatic promotion.


I wish people would stop saying this. You don't win the league over a 46-game season by luck :lol:


100% this

utter nonsense, and instant moron status for anyone who says it

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Maneki Neko
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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Maneki Neko » 25 Feb 2016 09:12

Nameless I think those with even a fairly basic knowledge know that it is often not the best team that wins the league. Both Saints and West Ham were better than us when we won the league but we got more points.
.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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genome
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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by genome » 25 Feb 2016 09:43

Nameless I think those with even a fairly basic knowledge know that it is often not the best team that wins the league. Both Saints and West Ham were better than us when we won the league but we got more points.
Bad teams don't win titles but efficient teams can finish ahead of good footballing teams.


http://www.royals.org/matdoc/221011.html
http://www.royals.org/matdoc/101211.html
http://www.royals.org/matdoc/310312.html
http://www.royals.org/matdoc/130412.html

HTH

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by No Fixed Abode » 25 Feb 2016 09:46

Silver Fox
No Fixed Abode I'm not the only who doesn't think Reading haven't improved under McDermott.


Nope, you and this Longhorn bloke make quite the partnership



Of course Hobnob is representative of every Reading fan :roll:

And no offence but you're probably pissed at most home games. Things always look better when you're pissed. I should know m8!
Last edited by No Fixed Abode on 25 Feb 2016 10:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by No Fixed Abode » 25 Feb 2016 09:48

2 wins in the last 10 league games and they were against relegation threatened Bristol City and Rotherham and both 1-0. Things have really improved under McDermott.

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Re: How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

by Maneki Neko » 25 Feb 2016 09:56

spacepalm

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