51 Academy players

Jackson Corner
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51 Academy players

by Jackson Corner » 15 Mar 2019 00:41

The club love to bang on about how great our academy is with 51 players now played for the first team. In reality how many have been any good? For every Gylfi, Pearce, Obita ect.. There have been loads who have played a few games and disappeared to non league football. The reality is 4 of the last 5 seasons we have been relegation fodder.
How many of the promoted teams in recent seasons have academy players Brighton, Burnley, Watford , Wolves, Huddersfield all have none.

Brentford scraped there academy several seasons ago to concentrate on player recruitment from abroad and lower leagues. They play great football and pick up players like Jota Hogan Watkins Malpey and sell them on for big profits.
They get Neal Malpay for 1.5 million the player with most goals and assists in the championship while we have Danny Loader. Don’t be fooled our academy has way more failures than success stories.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by tidus_mi2 » 15 Mar 2019 00:41

Man you're oxf*rd negative.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by URZZZZ » 15 Mar 2019 00:59

As more and more money is pumped into the game, the need for using academy players are diminishing, I always find pride in blooding someone through from the academy

But even the biggest teams around football are still using some academy players. City - Foden United - Rashford Chelsea - Hudson Odoi etc

I personally think the fans are very much to blame. People all over Twitter crying for Danny Loader to start, crying for Richards to start etc... all our best academy players came in under the radar (who'd heard of Sigurdsson, Obita, Rinomhota) before they'd come straight into the 11

Your criticism of Loader is pathetic as well, yes he's painfully out of his depth at the moment but you're writing him off already. How about you see how long it took for Maupay (the example you quoted) to develop (and that's at four years older)

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Stranded » 15 Mar 2019 09:18

Jackson Corner The club love to bang on about how great our academy is with 51 players now played for the first team. In reality how many have been any good? For every Gylfi, Pearce, Obita ect.. There have been loads who have played a few games and disappeared to non league football. The reality is 4 of the last 5 seasons we have been relegation fodder.
How many of the promoted teams in recent seasons have academy players Brighton, Burnley, Watford , Wolves, Huddersfield all have none.

Brentford scraped there academy several seasons ago to concentrate on player recruitment from abroad and lower leagues. They play great football and pick up players like Jota Hogan Watkins Malpey and sell them on for big profits.
They get Neal Malpay for 1.5 million the player with most goals and assists in the championship while we have Danny Loader. Don’t be fooled our academy has way more failures than success stories.


And for every Malpay there will be a dozen of players who come and go at Brentford who you will never of heard of. The new way Brentford are doing things is interesting, i.e. no youth but just a B team but it is too early to suggest it will be more successful over the long term. It has produced 9 players in 3 years - they've sold one Meaphem (but he was already in the youth academy before it was scrapped) for big money.

Any youth investment is a numbers game, we've had 51 make a debut in just under 20 years which isn't a bad average and the plan is to get a mix of players who can make an impact in the first team and also bring in funds if they aren't quite good enough or the right fit at the time they are ready.

I would say our successes are as follows (using this list https://www.readingfc.co.uk/teams/acade ... graduates/):

SImon Church
Jake Cooper
Simon Cox
Michael Hector
Darius Henderson
Jem Karacan
Liam Kelly
Shane Long
Alex McCarthy
Jordan Obita
Alex Pearce
Andy Rinohmota
Hal Robson-Kanu
Gylfi Sigurdsson
Aaron Tshibola
Nathan Tyson

So 16 of the 51 listed graduates would have to be classed as a success. WIth the following perhaps too early in their development and at the club yet to be judged as yet:

Tennai Watson
Sam Smith
Omar Richards (could argubly already be on the other list)
Gabriel Osho
Michael Olise
Andrjia Novakovich (again could well be on the above list)
Tom McIntyre
Danny Loader
Josh Barrett
Tom Holmes
Ryan East

So up to 27 qualified successes now - not bad - sure some will disagree with the above and have additions/deletions but over a 20 year spell that is a damn good return.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Hound » 15 Mar 2019 09:30

Novakovich is already worth 1m+ Id say at a minimum, possibly a lot more - therefore already a success

Got money for Samuel as well, so again a good return


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Re: 51 Academy players

by Stranded » 15 Mar 2019 09:48

Hound Novakovich is already worth 1m+ Id say at a minimum, possibly a lot more - therefore already a success

Got money for Samuel as well, so again a good return


Yep, wasn't too sure where to put him as he hasn't done anything for us yet but his worth and form on loan suggests he is a success.

Samuel also a fair shout, any player that plays for us in the PL should be classed a success.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Forbury Lion » 15 Mar 2019 10:05

URZZZZ Your criticism of Loader is pathetic as well, yes he's painfully out of his depth at the moment but you're writing him off already. How about you see how long it took for Maupay (the example you quoted) to develop (and that's at four years older)
Add to that Shane Long, who took a few years to develop into a player who could lead the line on his own.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Hound » 15 Mar 2019 10:07

URZZZZ As more and more money is pumped into the game, the need for using academy players are diminishing,


Not sure I fully agree with that. I think its going back the other way again where teams, esp us, realise that its the only way to keep the finances stable. FFP is a big part of that.

Definitely seems to be our current plan is to buy a lot less players and use the academy more

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Re: 51 Academy players

by sandman » 15 Mar 2019 10:27

Some work out and some don't, It's the same with transfers.


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Re: 51 Academy players

by sandman » 15 Mar 2019 10:36

There's plenty of time on Loader's side. With an intelligent Forward like Oliveira alongside him I still think he could be decent this season.

Remember when Gareth Bale was considered "a curse" for Tottenham? Or when Ronaldo was the lightweight showpony at Man United? Not saying he'll be anywhere near that level but young players don't always hit the heights straight away.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Barcelona Blue » 15 Mar 2019 10:42

Loaders been a bit dissapointing but maybe needs a goal quick to settle his nerves or a loan to get him scoring at a higher level.
I thought that East played some nice passes on tuesday and also Michael Olise looked really lively, can´t say much on 15 minutes but looked like we might have a real talent there.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by stealthpapes » 15 Mar 2019 12:29

Stranded
Jackson Corner The club love to bang on about how great our academy is with 51 players now played for the first team. In reality how many have been any good? For every Gylfi, Pearce, Obita ect.. There have been loads who have played a few games and disappeared to non league football. The reality is 4 of the last 5 seasons we have been relegation fodder.
How many of the promoted teams in recent seasons have academy players Brighton, Burnley, Watford , Wolves, Huddersfield all have none.

Brentford scraped there academy several seasons ago to concentrate on player recruitment from abroad and lower leagues. They play great football and pick up players like Jota Hogan Watkins Malpey and sell them on for big profits.
They get Neal Malpay for 1.5 million the player with most goals and assists in the championship while we have Danny Loader. Don’t be fooled our academy has way more failures than success stories.


And for every Malpay there will be a dozen of players who come and go at Brentford who you will never of heard of. The new way Brentford are doing things is interesting, i.e. no youth but just a B team but it is too early to suggest it will be more successful over the long term. It has produced 9 players in 3 years - they've sold one Meaphem (but he was already in the youth academy before it was scrapped) for big money.

Any youth investment is a numbers game, we've had 51 make a debut in just under 20 years which isn't a bad average and the plan is to get a mix of players who can make an impact in the first team and also bring in funds if they aren't quite good enough or the right fit at the time they are ready.

I would say our successes are as follows (using this list https://www.readingfc.co.uk/teams/acade ... graduates/):

SImon Church
Jake Cooper
Simon Cox
Michael Hector
Darius Henderson
Jem Karacan
Liam Kelly
Shane Long
Alex McCarthy
Jordan Obita
Alex Pearce
Andy Rinohmota
Hal Robson-Kanu
Gylfi Sigurdsson
Aaron Tshibola
Nathan Tyson

So 16 of the 51 listed graduates would have to be classed as a success. WIth the following perhaps too early in their development and at the club yet to be judged as yet:

Tennai Watson
Sam Smith
Omar Richards (could argubly already be on the other list)
Gabriel Osho
Michael Olise
Andrjia Novakovich (again could well be on the above list)
Tom McIntyre
Danny Loader
Josh Barrett
Tom Holmes
Ryan East

So up to 27 qualified successes now - not bad - sure some will disagree with the above and have additions/deletions but over a 20 year spell that is a damn good return.


excellent post, Stranded.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by SCIAG » 15 Mar 2019 12:56

Oh gosh, where to start...
Jackson Corner How many of the promoted teams in recent seasons have academy players Brighton, Burnley, Watford , Wolves, Huddersfield all have none.
Watford's academy has produced the likes of Ashley Young, Britt Assombalonga, and Jadon Sancho.

Wolves currently have Morgan Gibbs-White and Danny Batth, whole Bright Enobakhare player a big role in their promotion season.

Brighton has Lewis Dunk and Solly March in their side.

Huddersfield has Phil Billing in their side when they got promoted. They've also recently produced the likes of Jack Hunt, Alex Smithies, and Duane Holmes.

Burnley have historically struggled to hold onto players but their academy has produced Jay Rodriguez and Kyle Lafferty. Dwight McNeil is currently playing for them.


Don’t be fooled our academy has way more failures than success stories.

Don't think anyone has tried to suggest differently- it's almost inherent in the academy system. You're taking a lot of cheap gambles and saving a lot of money if a few pay off.


URZZZZ
I personally think the fans are very much to blame. People all over Twitter crying for Danny Loader to start, crying for Richards to start etc... all our best academy players came in under the radar (who'd heard of Sigurdsson, Obita, Rinomhota) before they'd come straight into the 11

Obita was very high profile. When he was 16 Trevor Brooking said that he was England's future alongside Alex Oxlade Chamberlain which brought him to national attention. Sigurdsson similarly scored on his debut several months before he established himself in the team. I actually think Richards is probably the best example of an "under the radar" player doing well - he was a relatively unheralded member of his youth side containing Barrett, Smith, Osho, and Southwood (not to mention Axel and East). But regardless, seems silly to "blame the fans" - is there even a problem to assign blame for?


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Re: 51 Academy players

by SCIAG » 15 Mar 2019 13:09

Also on successes and failure, obviously it depends on your definition but I think you have to count Ben Hamer, Jamie Ashdown, and James Henry as successes. Hamer and Ashdown played in the Premier League, and I think Henry might be our only graduate to score a hat trick for us? Not counting Long.

Also a number of players have been successful for other clubs if not here. The famous ones are Wickham, Austin, and Ji, but also people like Adam Lockwood, Marvin Bartley, Carl McHugh, Angus MacDonald, Conor Shaughnessy, and Sammi Fridjonsson have all been successful at this level.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by URZZZZ » 15 Mar 2019 13:55

SCIAG Oh gosh, where to start...
Jackson Corner How many of the promoted teams in recent seasons have academy players Brighton, Burnley, Watford , Wolves, Huddersfield all have none.
Watford's academy has produced the likes of Ashley Young, Britt Assombalonga, and Jadon Sancho.

Wolves currently have Morgan Gibbs-White and Danny Batth, whole Bright Enobakhare player a big role in their promotion season.

Brighton has Lewis Dunk and Solly March in their side.

Huddersfield has Phil Billing in their side when they got promoted. They've also recently produced the likes of Jack Hunt, Alex Smithies, and Duane Holmes.

Burnley have historically struggled to hold onto players but their academy has produced Jay Rodriguez and Kyle Lafferty. Dwight McNeil is currently playing for them.


Don’t be fooled our academy has way more failures than success stories.

Don't think anyone has tried to suggest differently- it's almost inherent in the academy system. You're taking a lot of cheap gambles and saving a lot of money if a few pay off.


URZZZZ
I personally think the fans are very much to blame. People all over Twitter crying for Danny Loader to start, crying for Richards to start etc... all our best academy players came in under the radar (who'd heard of Sigurdsson, Obita, Rinomhota) before they'd come straight into the 11

Obita was very high profile. When he was 16 Trevor Brooking said that he was England's future alongside Alex Oxlade Chamberlain which brought him to national attention. Sigurdsson similarly scored on his debut several months before he established himself in the team. I actually think Richards is probably the best example of an "under the radar" player doing well - he was a relatively unheralded member of his youth side containing Barrett, Smith, Osho, and Southwood (not to mention Axel and East). But regardless, seems silly to "blame the fans" - is there even a problem to assign blame for?


Yes, because if you put consistent pressure on managers to start someone, that player will be feeling under more pressure

The way the fans went on about loader, you’d think he was as good as Ronaldo. Now obviously you can’t say this for certain but I believe the fans that kept and kept calling for him to start didn’t help him one bit because when he finally broke into the first team, there was too much pressure in his shoulders and he was predictably useless

And with your obita point, I do realise I was slightly misguided with that point, because he was talked about before he broke into the first team. But he was talked about around the beginning of the 2011/12 season and it wasn’t till halfway through the 13/14 one he played regularly. That, IMO is good management of a youth player

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Re: 51 Academy players

by maffff » 15 Mar 2019 16:34

Stranded I would say our successes are as follows (using this list https://www.readingfc.co.uk/teams/acade ... graduates/):

SImon Church
Jake Cooper
Simon Cox
Michael Hector
Darius Henderson
Jem Karacan
Liam Kelly
Shane Long
Alex McCarthy
Jordan Obita
Alex Pearce
Andy Rinohmota
Hal Robson-Kanu
Gylfi Sigurdsson
Aaron Tshibola
Nathan Tyson

So 16 of the 51 listed graduates would have to be classed as a success. WIth the following perhaps too early in their development and at the club yet to be judged as yet:

Tennai Watson
Sam Smith
Omar Richards (could argubly already be on the other list)
Gabriel Osho
Michael Olise
Andrjia Novakovich (again could well be on the above list)
Tom McIntyre
Danny Loader
Josh Barrett
Tom Holmes
Ryan East

So up to 27 qualified successes now - not bad - sure some will disagree with the above and have additions/deletions but over a 20 year spell that is a damn good return.


Great post. Add to that those who we've made some money on or that we've created foundations for them to have a decent career in the game:

Andersen, Andresson, Dickie, Edwards, Fosu, Hamer, Keown, Sheppard, Stacey, Sweeney, Tanner, Taylor, Young.

A mix of successes, or possible successes in the case of the likes of Andresson - just not here. I wouldn't call any of them failures.

I'd argue Taylor was a success here, popped up with vital goals despite being out of his depth and has gone on to be loved at Exeter.

That's not even including those who left before graduating here. A number we laid the foundations for who have had a decent career after leaving due to being released or personal reasons (e.g. Mawson, MacDonald, Wickham, Shaughnessy, Vancooten, Daniels, Grant, Semedo, Husin, Baptiste, Napa) or were released and have the potential to (Fridjonsson, Odiffin, Seddon, Rosario, Tupper) or were poached and may go on to have good careers (Osei-Tutu, Martinez, Greenidge, Moriah-Welsh, Saydee, Dickson-Peters, Bynoe-Gittens).

Depends on the scope of how you look at it really. What's success? Prem level players? Internationals? Champ level? Getting money for sales? Players having league careers? Graduating at the club? Setting the foundations for players even if they leave before they make it here?

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Tilehurstsouthbank » 15 Mar 2019 16:41

Candidate for 'Worst post of the year'.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Hound » 15 Mar 2019 16:54

maffff Depends on the scope of how you look at it really. What's success? Prem level players? Internationals? Champ level? Getting money for sales? Players having league careers? Graduating at the club? Setting the foundations for players even if they leave before they make it here?


Its a fair point. In basic terms its probably either making money for Reading or playing for Reading regularly

But then of course if someone leaves the academy and goes onto have a career elsewhere -then though it doesn't directly benefit the club, it does enhance the Academy's rep - therefore more likely to sign the best young talent

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Zip » 15 Mar 2019 17:09

The Academy has been the one real positive on the playing side during these pretty dismal past few years.
As has been amptly demonstrated on this thread plenty of graduates have gone on to have playing careers at a high level. That’s good enough for me.

It’s more than that. We have young lads who are growing up as Reading fans signing on with the Academy and then eventually playing for the first team. That creates more of a bond with supporters. I suspect we will see more and more Academy boys playing at a senior level with the club going forward. I see that as the right way to go and it will prevent another 2017 occurring when ridiculous monies were spent in transfer fees which has destabilised the club.

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Re: 51 Academy players

by Cape Town Royal » 16 Mar 2019 00:32

maffff
Stranded I would say our successes are as follows (using this list https://www.readingfc.co.uk/teams/acade ... graduates/):

SImon Church
Jake Cooper
Simon Cox
Michael Hector
Darius Henderson
Jem Karacan
Liam Kelly
Shane Long
Alex McCarthy
Jordan Obita
Alex Pearce
Andy Rinohmota
Hal Robson-Kanu
Gylfi Sigurdsson
Aaron Tshibola
Nathan Tyson

So 16 of the 51 listed graduates would have to be classed as a success. WIth the following perhaps too early in their development and at the club yet to be judged as yet:

Tennai Watson
Sam Smith
Omar Richards (could argubly already be on the other list)
Gabriel Osho
Michael Olise
Andrjia Novakovich (again could well be on the above list)
Tom McIntyre
Danny Loader
Josh Barrett
Tom Holmes
Ryan East

So up to 27 qualified successes now - not bad - sure some will disagree with the above and have additions/deletions but over a 20 year spell that is a damn good return.


Great post. Add to that those who we've made some money on or that we've created foundations for them to have a decent career in the game:

Andersen, Andresson, Dickie, Edwards, Fosu, Hamer, Keown, Sheppard, Stacey, Sweeney, Tanner, Taylor, Young.

A mix of successes, or possible successes in the case of the likes of Andresson - just not here. I wouldn't call any of them failures.

I'd argue Taylor was a success here, popped up with vital goals despite being out of his depth and has gone on to be loved at Exeter.

That's not even including those who left before graduating here. A number we laid the foundations for who have had a decent career after leaving due to being released or personal reasons (e.g. Mawson, MacDonald, Wickham, Shaughnessy, Vancooten, Daniels, Grant, Semedo, Husin, Baptiste, Napa) or were released and have the potential to (Fridjonsson, Odiffin, Seddon, Rosario, Tupper) or were poached and may go on to have good careers (Osei-Tutu, Martinez, Greenidge, Moriah-Welsh, Saydee, Dickson-Peters, Bynoe-Gittens).

Depends on the scope of how you look at it really. What's success? Prem level players? Internationals? Champ level? Getting money for sales? Players having league careers? Graduating at the club? Setting the foundations for players even if they leave before they make it here?


As well as Jake Taylor, Pierce Sweeney has also done very well at Exeter... had a great season there last year...

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