The way things are/were done

Forbury Lion
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 6705
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: https://urlzs.com/ZVLjH

The way things are/were done

by Forbury Lion » 05 Jun 2019 09:35

Just read another Joey Van den Berg interview on getreading, Apparently Reading called him just before he was about to walk out to be announced at the loan club and told him he had to give up his £70k bonus or the deal was off.

This sounds a bit underhand to me, Is this typical of the way things were done under Gourlay and is this still the way things are done under Howe? - I'm all for saving money, but not at the expense of integrity and reputation.

Maybe if they hadn't dished out big contracts so easily they wouldn't have been in this mess.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/foot ... g-16376333

User avatar
Wallsy
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: 08 May 2019 15:42

Re: The way things are/were done

by Wallsy » 05 Jun 2019 10:38

You’re asking a question that can’t be answered, unless you turn up to a STAR forum one evening ...

Gourlay was (is) a cnut, as was Clement. Joey couldn’t stand him.

I think we’re all glad to have Nigel back as CEO.

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11393
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: The way things are/were done

by Hound » 05 Jun 2019 12:34

I quite liked Joey in his interview but getting a bit bored of his ‘didn’t want leaders’ thing

Basically Clement made it clear there wasn’t any leadership on the pitch before he came and that was pretty evident in our dismal fall down the table. If Joey was a ‘leader’ as he claims to be, he really wasn’t doing a very good job of it

User avatar
WoodleyRoyal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3124
Joined: 16 Jun 2008 10:49
Location: Dave Royal I'm Coming for you! whats your IP today?

Re: The way things are/were done

by WoodleyRoyal » 05 Jun 2019 13:11

this was under gourlays watch, nothing else need be said. close thread

El Diablo
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: 03 Oct 2012 13:20

Re: The way things are/were done

by El Diablo » 05 Jun 2019 13:11

Hound I quite liked Joey in his interview but getting a bit bored of his ‘didn’t want leaders’ thing

Basically Clement made it clear there wasn’t any leadership on the pitch before he came and that was pretty evident in our dismal fall down the table. If Joey was a ‘leader’ as he claims to be, he really wasn’t doing a very good job of it


+1 - Indeed , you wouldnt expect a 'Leader' to be bad mouthing a previous employer to the general public either ...there are always two sides to a story


muirinho
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1528
Joined: 20 Jan 2016 12:10

Re: The way things are/were done

by muirinho » 05 Jun 2019 13:55

El Diablo
Hound I quite liked Joey in his interview but getting a bit bored of his ‘didn’t want leaders’ thing

Basically Clement made it clear there wasn’t any leadership on the pitch before he came and that was pretty evident in our dismal fall down the table. If Joey was a ‘leader’ as he claims to be, he really wasn’t doing a very good job of it


+1 - Indeed , you wouldnt expect a 'Leader' to be bad mouthing a previous employer to the general public either ...there are always two sides to a story


tbf to him I don't think vdB is talking about "during the game leadership" - he's talking about generally being able to speak your mind. And Kermorgant alluded to it as well in his interview. You need to be able to demand quality work from your teammates, and be able to criticise them if they're not providing it. If not necessarily during a game, then certainly during training and in the dressing-room.

And it came across that the only voice Clement wanted to hear during training was his own.

We can criticise the players all we want, and no doubt they deserve it, but it's telling that the only player that seemed upset with Clement leaving was Meite, and that presumably was because he was the first Reading manager to give him a chance. (And I wouldn't blame Stam for not doing so either, he's not exactly polished now, but he was very very raw before he went out on loan)

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11393
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: The way things are/were done

by Hound » 05 Jun 2019 15:36

I think they are pretty much the same thing. The players signed by PC for example were rightly or wrongly bought into resolve that. Would still get round to whatever opinions they were giving in training were having zero affect from the outside at least

A harsher way of putting it that maybe both Yann and Joey were bitter they were no longer deemed good enough. 2 knackered out past it players giving it large in training probably wasn't going down too well

User avatar
Sutekh
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8653
Joined: 12 Feb 2014 14:05
Location: Destroying things.... just like Michael Gilkes used to

Re: The way things are/were done

by Sutekh » 05 Jun 2019 16:00

Well at least it seems it would be difficult to currently have anyone better for the job than Jose given how he (and I suppose Nigel and even Kia to some extent) have managed to turn the playing side around on limited funds. OK next season may only be a little better but hopefully by this time next season there should be flexibility and some money available to start to get the club back to some semblance of a challenging concern in the division.

Let's hope the club have learned all these lessons from the last 3/4 seasons and will come out all the better because of it.

muirinho
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1528
Joined: 20 Jan 2016 12:10

Re: The way things are/were done

by muirinho » 05 Jun 2019 17:21

Hound I think they are pretty much the same thing. The players signed by PC for example were rightly or wrongly bought into resolve that. Would still get round to whatever opinions they were giving in training were having zero affect from the outside at least

A harsher way of putting it that maybe both Yann and Joey were bitter they were no longer deemed good enough. 2 knackered out past it players giving it large in training probably wasn't going down too well


OR - the only reason we've only heard from them is because the other players still want to play in England / for this club and don't want to burn their boats too much.

It doesn't make sense to say Clement was justified in shutting them down because performances were poor - when after he presumably had shut them down, performances were still poor. Because surely, that would be down to Clement, wouldn't it?

Obviously it's all ifs and buts and maybes - but when the people who are free to speak their mind are singing from the same hymn sheet, it would make you wonder.

Be good to hear an interview about Clement's time with, say, Liam Moore in 10 years time....


Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11393
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: The way things are/were done

by Hound » 05 Jun 2019 17:40

Don’t get me wrong - PCs training was clearly flawed. Moore himself explained why, without resorting to calling the other players ‘little lambs’

What PC took over was an unfit, characterless, one dimensional, boring, disconnected, weak shambles of a unit. And yet all the old players seem to really rate Stam, quite often as the best manager they’ve played under. I do all find it a little baffling

I remember Yann saying something along the lines of PC putting too much trust in some of the other players rather than his ageing clique. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some kind of bust up behind closed doors with a few of the players when PC came in/Stam was sacked

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5484
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: The way things are/were done

by Nameless » 06 Jun 2019 07:35

Sounds to like there’s is an element of self justification in what VDB is saying. He doesn’t have a great record as a player having got fed up and quit the game previously. He didn’t display much leadership while he was here and rarely did much to justify his place in the team or he ‘best ever contract’. These interviews may be in part him trying to justify his time here (as much to himself as anyone).
Very similar to O’Shea in some ways in that O’Shea really didn’t do enough on the pitch to justify his signing but has been universally praised for his attitude off the pitch etc etc. No one seems to have been coming out to say how influential Joey was....

User avatar
Denver Royal
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 1909
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 10:58
Location: Between Emmer Green duck pond and The White Horse

Re: The way things are/were done

by Denver Royal » 06 Jun 2019 15:10

muirinho It's telling that the only player that seemed upset with Clement leaving was Meite, and that presumably was because he was the first Reading manager to give him a chance. (And I wouldn't blame Stam for not doing so either, he's not exactly polished now, but he was very very raw before he went out on loan).
Be good to hear an interview about Clement's time with, say, Liam Moore in 10 years time..

It might be good to hear, but not sure to what extent it would change some of the narrative. :wink:
Even in Moore’s recent interviews he wasn't exactly full of praise.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1909
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: The way things are/were done

by URZZZZ » 06 Jun 2019 16:32

Nameless Sounds to like there’s is an element of self justification in what VDB is saying. He doesn’t have a great record as a player having got fed up and quit the game previously. He didn’t display much leadership while he was here and rarely did much to justify his place in the team or he ‘best ever contract’. These interviews may be in part him trying to justify his time here (as much to himself as anyone).
Very similar to O’Shea in some ways in that O’Shea really didn’t do enough on the pitch to justify his signing but has been universally praised for his attitude off the pitch etc etc. No one seems to have been coming out to say how influential Joey was....


Nonsense. He justified his time here by putting in many a good performance in his first season. Yep, second season was found out, but who wasn't? Unfortunately as he was Dutch, it meant you're twice as likely to be criticised.


Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11393
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: The way things are/were done

by Hound » 06 Jun 2019 17:31

URZZZZ Unfortunately as he was Dutch, it meant you're twice as likely to be criticised.


Nope, that’s the nonsense

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1909
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: The way things are/were done

by URZZZZ » 06 Jun 2019 18:49

Hound
URZZZZ Unfortunately as he was Dutch, it meant you're twice as likely to be criticised.


Nope, that’s the nonsense


Lots of discussions in here on scapegoats and why certain players are targeted. If you don’t think our Dutch treble were criticised more than the “average” player then Im surprised considering you’re normally on the money, I get at times they were “undroppable” when they should have been but that doesn’t make them rubbish players like many suggested

Anyway I’m bored of talking about Joey and what he could/couldn’t bring but to say he didn’t contribute on the pitch is rubbish IMO

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11393
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: The way things are/were done

by Hound » 06 Jun 2019 19:20

I haven’t noticed any particular bias due to nationality to be honest. Swift and Gunter seem to get the brunt of the abuse over the last couple of years, maybe with a bit of Kelly thrown in

Joey was very decent first year, rubbish (like everyone else pretty much) in his second

Zip
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5739
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: The way things are/were done

by Zip » 06 Jun 2019 19:26

Hound I haven’t noticed any particular bias due to nationality to be honest. Swift and Gunter seem to get the brunt of the abuse over the last couple of years, maybe with a bit of Kelly thrown in

Joey was very decent first year, rubbish (like everyone else pretty much) in his second


I’d say Gunts has been the most criticised of the lot over the past couple of years. Pelle Clement barely featured so was rarely criticised. Beerens and Van Den Berg were heavily criticised during their second seasons but no more than others.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 9187
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: The way things are/were done

by Snowflake Royal » 06 Jun 2019 19:39

Hound I think they are pretty much the same thing. The players signed by PC for example were rightly or wrongly bought into resolve that. Would still get round to whatever opinions they were giving in training were having zero affect from the outside at least

A harsher way of putting it that maybe both Yann and Joey were bitter they were no longer deemed good enough. 2 knackered out past it players giving it large in training probably wasn't going down too well

When things are going well peer to peer feedback is good and easy. When you're in the shit there's a hierarchy for a reason and if the gaffer wants clear lines of authority you go through them with your issues.

For all that I liked Joey, he's not exactly the guy to be dishing out critiques of others in training. But the Dutch are blunt and outspoken.

It's starting to whiff of sour grapes from a guy who got his big break and contract but couldn't cut it.

As for Yann. One great year, thank you very much, but after than that, just not up to it.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5484
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: The way things are/were done

by Nameless » 07 Jun 2019 08:05

URZZZZ
Nameless Sounds to like there’s is an element of self justification in what VDB is saying. He doesn’t have a great record as a player having got fed up and quit the game previously. He didn’t display much leadership while he was here and rarely did much to justify his place in the team or he ‘best ever contract’. These interviews may be in part him trying to justify his time here (as much to himself as anyone).
Very similar to O’Shea in some ways in that O’Shea really didn’t do enough on the pitch to justify his signing but has been universally praised for his attitude off the pitch etc etc. No one seems to have been coming out to say how influential Joey was....


Nonsense. He justified his time here by putting in many a good performance in his first season. Yep, second season was found out, but who wasn't? Unfortunately as he was Dutch, it meant you're twice as likely to be criticised.


Good of you to preface your comments by warning us of the standard of analysis.
Dumb comment about the Dutch lads getting extra stick, simply untrue.
Taken overall Joey didn’t have a great time with us and he should shoulder his share of the blame. Interesting to compare his comments with Myler’s, much more respect for Myler putting his hands up and accepting criticism.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1909
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: The way things are/were done

by URZZZZ » 08 Jun 2019 01:17

Nameless
URZZZZ
Nameless Sounds to like there’s is an element of self justification in what VDB is saying. He doesn’t have a great record as a player having got fed up and quit the game previously. He didn’t display much leadership while he was here and rarely did much to justify his place in the team or he ‘best ever contract’. These interviews may be in part him trying to justify his time here (as much to himself as anyone).
Very similar to O’Shea in some ways in that O’Shea really didn’t do enough on the pitch to justify his signing but has been universally praised for his attitude off the pitch etc etc. No one seems to have been coming out to say how influential Joey was....


Nonsense. He justified his time here by putting in many a good performance in his first season. Yep, second season was found out, but who wasn't? Unfortunately as he was Dutch, it meant you're twice as likely to be criticised.


Good of you to preface your comments by warning us of the standard of analysis.
Dumb comment about the Dutch lads getting extra stick, simply untrue.
Taken overall Joey didn’t have a great time with us and he should shoulder his share of the blame. Interesting to compare his comments with Myler’s, much more respect for Myler putting his hands up and accepting criticism.


Would say Joey was a solid 6 out of 10 in his time here (7 first season, 5 second). Added to the fact he was also on a free, I think your comments are harsh. Anyway...

It isn't a dumb comment to suggest they got extra stick. Dutch Manager meant people thought the Dutch Players were favourites so took it out on them

Sheffield United at home last season. We lost 3-1, possibly the worst home performance in years. Everyone played awfully, yet who was singled out? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=142124&p=4592973&hilit=van+den+red+card#p4592973. Even on that thread, you had people saying he only played because he was Dutch? Did Pelle Clement get the same treatment :|

As for the people that called him Van Den Red Card, seriously :?: He got sent off once. Appreciate a few of you did actually mention that but still...

How many times did we cheer Van Den Berg or Beerens on? Petty but we had a song for Mendes (2 league starts) but nothing for those two. Ha, remember fans booing Beerens on a few times :lol: Very few others got that treatment. Cardiff away, back end of last season, just kept a clean sheet against 2nd in the league. What's the first thing people did? Moan about Joey and say that we HAVE to get rid of him

Zip, nope you're wrong IMO. Was Van Den Berg worse than Evans or Ilori? Were those two ever ever booed of the pitch? Was Beerens worse than McCleary (the same Garath with 1 goal in 30 months). Nope, but was McCleary ever booed off the pitch?

Say what you want but nothing will change my mind that those two were victimised due to nationality. I do talk nonsense sometimes but there's so many little things that suggest I have a point...

And as for comparing Meyler with him, I'm not even going to go there

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

It is currently 12 Nov 2019 09:41