MATCHWATCH : Preston North End (a)

[Snowflake Royal]

There's no other way of putting it - the last week has been devastating for the club's season. Not just the results, or opponents coming up with unlikely results, just the combination of everything going in the worst possible way.

We've been flirting with this fate for multiple years and we're finally succumb to footballing gravity: If you're a poorly run club, gambling on untested managers and upsetting the authorities, then you're eventually going to get relegated. This has been coming, and is probably deserved.

I personally have more respect for PInce than others on here. If the owners had sorted out the finances to avoid the deduction then we'd be talking about how we just about survived. PInce didn't take us into the relegation zone - our mismanagement did. That's not to say that he comes out of this with much credit either though.

It’s easiest to just blame one man and think that we’d be all fine it ince wasn’t in charge. It’s just not the case; the team is poor, loads of injuries, no confidence. Agree he has certainly contributed significantly to our dreadful run this calendar year though and worth Bowen just having a go because we will go down otherwise

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

[NathStPaul]

Who in our side would any other team in the division genuinely want? No one came in for any of them in the summer or the Jan window

a couple of teams may take a few of our young players off our hands for their potential. And maybe T Ince but he was hardly in demand at Stoke

This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

You know you're a basket case when Peter Ridsdale runs a club better than you.

Yep cracking point.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

It’s easiest to just blame one man and think that we’d be all fine it ince wasn’t in charge. It’s just not the case; the team is poor, loads of injuries, no confidence. Agree he has certainly contributed significantly to our dreadful run this calendar year though and worth Bowen just having a go because we will go down otherwise

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october

[Royal Rother]

I’m sure Noel Hunt would do a better job but it would probably be unfair to put him in that position and give him what would probably be a negative start to his managerial career.

So unless we can afford to get someone in who has some experience in these situations (reasonable to assume we can’t) I suggest we get shot of Ince and make Dann and Carroll joint player managers.

Not suggesting that would be ideal of course but I think it would be better than the total bollocks this team produces under Ince and Rae.

[Snowflake Royal]

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october

Gomes made it pretty clear where we were heading under him.

[blythspartan]

Just got back to Chesterfield ready for work tomorrow. Honestly, that was oxf*rd dreadful and atm I don’t want to go to another game. Azeez and Ehib did okay and Lumley made some good saves. I can’t fault the players effort but we look so disjointed.

I am blaming Ince but the players are also responsible to a degree. We look as good as relegated and personally I’d like to see us play 2-0 football for the last 5 games and attack teams. I’ll probably be up for the Burnley game on Saturday but we might get hammered if they aren’t too hungover.

[Clyde1998]

If Ince does go (which I can't see happening btw), we need someone who can simply get the best out of the players we've got. That's the strength of Neil Warnock - basically all the players he's had under him would run into machine gun fire for him if he told them to. For five matches (we can worry about a manager for next season at another point) it doesn't matter how the team plays, just as long as we get points.

I'd imagine Mark Bowen would be the caretaker manager should Ince go. He did take a side 22nd in the league (in mid-October) to a 14th place finish and had an immediate impact last time (getting ten points from his first four matches). It was basically his team which started the following season strongly, even if he got replaced a week before the season started, too.

[SCIAG]

I’m sure Noel Hunt would do a better job but it would probably be unfair to put him in that position and give him what would probably be a negative start to his managerial career.

So unless we can afford to get someone in who has some experience in these situations (reasonable to assume we can’t) I suggest we get shot of Ince and make Dann and Carroll joint player managers.

Why is it not fair to put Hunt in that position, but perfectly fair to put Dann and/or Carroll in that position?

[Royal Rother]

I’m sure Noel Hunt would do a better job but it would probably be unfair to put him in that position and give him what would probably be a negative start to his managerial career.

So unless we can afford to get someone in who has some experience in these situations (reasonable to assume we can’t) I suggest we get shot of Ince and make Dann and Carroll joint player managers.

Why is it not fair to put Hunt in that position, but perfectly fair to put Dann and/or Carroll in that position?

Yeah, fair question.

Because having done his badges (I believe) Hunt will probably be a 1st team manager in the relatively near future, whereas Carroll and Dann have a way to go and management wouldn’t really be on their radar yet awhile so any “failure” on a quick fix interim appointment wouldn’t really stick when assessed for future managerial roles.

That was my thinking anyway!

[Hound]

Who in our side would any other team in the division genuinely want? No one came in for any of them in the summer or the Jan window

a couple of teams may take a few of our young players off our hands for their potential. And maybe T Ince but he was hardly in demand at Stoke

This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

This.

Luton, Millwall and Preston have spent years sensibly and coherently building competitive squads. They have also been able to pick up excellent loan players who i suspect didn’t come for free. The lads at PNE for instance have turned their season around

It’s blinkered to suggest they aren’t better on paper.

We’ve literally had to pick up the leftovers.

Ince is a crap manager of course, and has cost us points, but the side is also pretty dreadful

[South Coast Royal]

Should we read too much into Pince supposedly not travelling back on the team coach?
Is it ironic that we play Luton next week?
Watch this space.
Rumours eh?

[Sutekh]

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october

They are if Gomes, Paunovic or Clement or Ince is their manager.

[Sutekh]

Nathan Jones has been gone too long is all I’ll say.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It’s not about quality it’s about organisation and planning . It’s about players knowing what to do and why they’re doing it.

This team hasn’t got a oxf*rd clue. They should because they actually aren’t a bad side. A half decent manager would get them playing a lot lot better than this twat has.

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.

Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.

The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

[leon]

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.

Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.

The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

[Uke]

Nathan Jones has been gone too long is all I’ll say.

It could be a Supreme appointment

[NathStPaul]

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.

Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.

The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I swear you just argue against indisputable facts on here just so you get direct interaction with other humans. You're full of shit.

[Royal Rother]

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.

This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.

But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.

Look at our results you lunatic.

Dunno about "lunatic" but yeah.

I vowed 6 weeks ago not to watch us again this season as it was just bloody frustrating and pointless, and has been for almost the entirety of the dozen or more games I had watched.

Yesterday my son decided to red button the game so I thought what the hell, might as well join him.

No surprise, still terrible to watch, almost embarrassing how a team flirting with play-offs can be made to look so good in possession, we never got near to them, just chasing shadows. 11 people out on the pitch in the hoops farting about, mostly scared to choose any option other than the easiest pass, zero vision, incapable of showing for each other, poor first touch, desperate hoofs out of defence to no-one.

And then for 10 minutes (if that) we got on the front foot, showed a bit of intent and scored a goal. Just a few minutes, in a must-win game, that was it.

I assume it is more Rae than Ince who sets up the training sessions but when everyone is getting worse you have to conclude that those training sessions, and the thinking behind them, must be pretty damn useless.

"You could see what we were trying to do". I'd love to know what that was, because it sure as hell wasn't designed to win that must-win football match.

[URZZZZ]

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.

Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.

The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks

It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors

Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

[leon]

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.

There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks

It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors

Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

Never heard him say he got it wrong. Everyone else is at fault.