The Southgate In Thread

[St Pauli]

England are a middle ranking footballing nation who got lucky in 1966. That’s how it always has been, and always will be.

The Premier League is not much better than most leagues of similar size in Europe. It’s just that as a league it has opened itself up a lot more to completely unsustainable funding and dodgy ownership models, and so has access to more billionaires. As a result the English ‘stars of the best league in the world’ aren’t really that much better than their European counterparts.

As a result Southgate is doing about as well as could be hoped for, and about as well as any other manager would do in his position.

Therefore, Southgate In!

Chill out and enjoy the ride.

[Sanguine]

I remain firmly in the Southgate in camp, even if his time is clearly nearly up. We have no divine right to a tournament win, and tournaments are hard. He is statistically our second most successful manager in history, and he hasn't achieved that through 'luck'.

But his blind spots seem to have developed into belligerence over the last 12 months, even in the decisions he has eventually made, like insisting that Henderson was the man for our midfield right up until the tournament itself.

The lack of substitutions and tactical change last night was infuriating.

[Winston Biscuit]

Always been Southgate IN!, though last night was the first time I have ever really starting questioning him. Sticking with players in positions that are clearly not producing, and a lack of willingness to go for it and make big substitution calls is all becoming very frustrating.

[NathStPaul]

I haven't had an issue with him until recently. He has always tended to play his best players in their correct positions which goes over well with me.

This tournament has been madness from Southgate and I have lost my patience with him. Our team is clearly calling for Bellingham next to Rice with Foden as the CAM but Southgate just won't budge. You also can't leave out a wildly in form player like Cole Palmer. A player who scores over 20 goals in his first full season in the Premier League deserves to start for England.

[Sanguine]

I haven't had an issue with him until recently. He has always tended to play his best players in their correct positions which goes over well with me.

This tournament has been madness from Southgate and I have lost my patience with him. Our team is clearly calling for Bellingham next to Rice with Foden as the CAM but Southgate just won't budge. You also can't leave out a wildly in form player like Cole Palmer. A player who scores over 20 goals in his first full season in the Premier League deserves to start for England.

What's telling about Bellingham, and his class, is the number of times he isn't getting the ball. Especially first half yesterday - he often dropped quickly into gaps in the midfield and was left frustrated when Guehi or Rice or mostly Stones (who had one of his worst passing games I've seen) failed to pick his run. Southgate wants him to do his Madrid thing, and he is, but he isn't getting the ball.

And what's up with Kane? I feel like he can't have touched the ball 30 times in the whole tournament.

[BRO_BOT]

...and he hasn't achieved that through 'luck'.

We've been on the 'lucky' side of the draw for 3 of the last 4 tournaments

[NathStPaul]

Do you feel more or less confident that he will do a good job at United when he takes over Brobby?

[BRO_BOT]

I haven't had an issue with him until recently. He has always tended to play his best players in their correct positions which goes over well with me.

- First, he throws TAA under the bus by playing a right back in midfield.
- Then it's Gallagher's turn to join him under the bus
- The decision to take an unfit Luke Shaw and no actual LB, Currently have a right winger in that spot
- Kane, Foden & Bellingham all want to play in the same space, drop one of them
- etc etc

[BRO_BOT]

Do you feel more or less confident that he will do a good job at United when he takes over Brobby?

I will be #Southgate_Out from day one if that happens!

[Sanguine]

...and he hasn't achieved that through 'luck'.

We've been on the 'lucky' side of the draw for 3 of the last 4 tournaments

Ah well. France should have beaten Poland last week. Same goes for Spain at the last Euros. Or they could have beaten Sweden and landed on our side of the draw too. We'd have met Argentina in the knock out stages in 2018 if they hadn't lost to Croatia and drawn with Iceland. Shit results for supposedly tougher sides.

[BRO_BOT]

...and he hasn't achieved that through 'luck'.

We've been on the 'lucky' side of the draw for 3 of the last 4 tournaments

Ah well. France should have beaten Poland last week. Same goes for Spain at the last Euros. Or they could have beaten Sweden and landed on our side of the draw too. We'd have met Argentina in the knock out stages in 2018 if they hadn't lost to Croatia and drawn with Iceland. Shit results for supposedly tougher sides.

It's lucky in that England faced low-rated teams that allowed them to progress to the latter stages more easily. Stronger teams may get beaten by weaker teams. The odds give us a pretty good rating of relative strength and how 'often' we would expect that to happen.

[Sanguine]

We've been on the 'lucky' side of the draw for 3 of the last 4 tournaments

Ah well. France should have beaten Poland last week. Same goes for Spain at the last Euros. Or they could have beaten Sweden and landed on our side of the draw too. We'd have met Argentina in the knock out stages in 2018 if they hadn't lost to Croatia and drawn with Iceland. Shit results for supposedly tougher sides.

It's lucky in that England faced low-rated teams that allowed them to progress to the latter stages more easily. Stronger teams may get beaten by weaker teams. The odds give us a pretty good rating of relative strength and how 'often' we would expect that to happen.

Seems to happen a hell of a lot to other sides.

[BRO_BOT]

Ah well. France should have beaten Poland last week. Same goes for Spain at the last Euros. Or they could have beaten Sweden and landed on our side of the draw too. We'd have met Argentina in the knock out stages in 2018 if they hadn't lost to Croatia and drawn with Iceland. Shit results for supposedly tougher sides.

It's lucky in that England faced low-rated teams that allowed them to progress to the latter stages more easily. Stronger teams may get beaten by weaker teams. The odds give us a pretty good rating of relative strength and how 'often' we would expect that to happen.

Seems to happen a hell of a lot to other sides.

Not sure where we're going with this. If given a choice for the next round you would most likely choose the lowest ranked side.

Imagine you're a Man Utd fan, which team would you like to face in the semi-final in order to progress:

- Chelsea
- Coventry
- Man City

Exactly! QED!

[Sanguine]

It's lucky in that England faced low-rated teams that allowed them to progress to the latter stages more easily. Stronger teams may get beaten by weaker teams. The odds give us a pretty good rating of relative strength and how 'often' we would expect that to happen.

Seems to happen a hell of a lot to other sides.

Not sure where we're going with this. If given a choice for the next round you would most likely choose the lowest ranked side.

Imagine you're a Man Utd fan, which team would you like to face in the semi-final in order to progress:

- Chelsea
- Coventry
- Man City

Exactly! QED!

Not anyone's issue but those who want to bash the England manager. It's up to France/Spain/Belgium/whoever to manage their way through a tournament (or fail to). England can only beat who lands in front of them, and if it is a 'lesser' opponent, it is because they have beaten a better one.

[Snowflake Royal]

I remain firmly in the Southgate in camp, even if his time is clearly nearly up. We have no divine right to a tournament win, and tournaments are hard. He is statistically our second most successful manager in history, and he hasn't achieved that through 'luck'.

But his blind spots seem to have developed into belligerence over the last 12 months, even in the decisions he has eventually made, like insisting that Henderson was the man for our midfield right up until the tournament itself.

The lack of substitutions and tactical change last night was infuriating.

I was in this boat. But performances over 4 tournament games have been inadequate. I think the players are at a lot of fault, but he's doing almost nothing to address it. Tinkering with one midfielder when the problem is our entire left flank and 9 and 10 aren't functioning properly isn't good enough.

I don't mind safety first. But we apparently have the best front 6 in world football, and we look utterly incapable of creating anything for 95% of games. And safety first isn't immediately retreating to camp our 18 yard box as soon as we get in front.

I don't know what's gone wrong, but after 8 years, four tournaments and this showing, its thank you and time to move on.

I hope to see real change in shape and approach against the Swiss, because they have the quality to punish us, although their attack isn't that strong, and certainly stop us scoring given our woeful movement. The squad attitude looks very poor and fragmented.

Your Henderson comment makes me think he's no longer really calling the shots and starting to be overruled / ignored.