What to do with the troublesome AM role?

How do you solve a problem like AM?

Doyle
1
7%
Wing
7
50%
Savage
2
14%
Rinomhota
0
No votes
Ehibhatiomhan
1
7%
Kyerewaa
1
7%
Camara
0
No votes
Osho
0
No votes
Tuma
0
No votes
Garcia
0
No votes
Lane
0
No votes
Shape change
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14
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Snowflake Royal
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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Nov 2025 12:26

Extended-Phenotype
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Extended-Phenotype With an AM you want a creative player, who understands space, with a good pass and a decent record for scoring goals outside of the box. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t put Wing in there.

I get that the old/current idea is to have Wing deep so he can “quarterback” long passes into the final third, but that’s not really working anymore. It’s not only wasting creative talent in a defensive position, I don’t actually think Wing is very good defensively.

My guess is that Hunt brought Doyle in for AM and sure, if you HAD to play Wing, Savage and Doyle in the middle, Doyle in AM with Wing and Savage behind him is probably the best arrangement. But I don’t think it’s the best arrangement when you make these players droppable.

Firstly, Doyle doesn’t need to walk into the starting 11 on fire to be a success. Let him try to make his mark from the bench. God knows we need a bit of quality coming on later in the game. And to be honest, I’m not sure why Doyle can’t be played on the wing if we really want him on the pitch at the same time as our captain.

Secondly, we have better options for DM than Wing, that don’t have to be perfect. Elliot has a lot of athleticism and has done a job there before. Ritchie has an outstanding understanding of positioning. If you wanted more defensive options, we seem to be rather saturated with FBs and CBs - could Yiadom do a job there? Burns? Ahmed? Dorsett? Garcia? And if any of those are a bit radical, there’s the player absolutely nailed on for DM when he’s fit: Liam Fraser.

What seems to happen with Reading in every game I have watched this season, is that everything gets pressed into a scrap and Wing and Savage fall backwards leaving a void in the middle that the players we have been asking to control it simply fail to. So why NOT try out best player in this hole, and bring in a better defensive option to boot. It just seems so obvious.

On Doyle out wide, his previous club were pretty adamant that he's far better centrally. He played wide in his first game for us and was poor. Although, I guess that's consistent performaces for us in both positions. You want a winger to be able to go past someone, Doyle doesn't.

On Wing playing AM, my argument has always been that he doesn't have the legs to beat someone and get away from them. He can turn someone and find space for a pass deep, because the space is less congested and there's usually only one player pressing him. Move him forward and everywhere he turns there'll be someone else nearby.

Added to that he gets pretty much all his goals by lurking deep and either running in late or finding space outside the press and defensive line. He won't have that if he plays forward, he'll be in the press.

Maybe he adapts and makes it work, but I don't think its the no brainer many think it is.

As for DMs, why try to get creative with Yids or Ritchie (Mr yellow card) when you can just play Rino?

Or Sackey or Spencer or Borgnis?


Wing: My impression is that “Wing is good at X” because that’s what he has been asked to do. Yes he “likes” to lurk from deep because that’s where he is being played. I’m not saying you are wrong about him perhaps finding it difficult to turn a player, or to find space effectively in a more contested position, but I personally haven’t seen evidence of this which is where my curiosity comes from. I’d like to see us at least try it, as centre midfield can’t get any worse. At the moment, it’s like a big cartoon fight cloud in the middle of the pitch that we either try to play around or ping the ball in there and hope it randomly pings out again in a favourable direction. A more disciplined DM line with a better passer in front of them could fix the machine.

DMs: Absolutely those players you suggested could do a job there. My argument is playing Wing more advanced might not only improve our creativity in attack, but also improve our stability in the middle.

433: I think a more free-flowing central midfield worked when we had players that understood each other. Last season it just seemed like we were almost running on pure understanding. After significant changes to personnel, this understanding has vanished. I’m not saying it won’t return, but right now I think our best bet is to go with a more rigid, role-defined midfield where players don’t have to interpret so much what their team mate might do - they just do more or less what their role dictates.

I’m a fan of simplicity. I don’t think you improve a struggling team by adding rules, complexity and flexibility. I think you build expectation in each other through discipline. Back four, holding DMs for protection and turnover, someone in the hole, a bit of width and a striker to put chances away. From there, build in flexibility. Don’t start with it and expect everyone to immediately gel and know what each other is thinking.

I have seen a few comments that claim we’d have won in we had Marriott on the pitch. But to my mind, teams win games and strikers break ties. We might have won on Saturday if Marriott received the rare chances MOM/Kelvin did, but that would be papering over the cracks of a poor performance.

There's a lot of sense in here. And I could well be wrong about Wing, he is after all a quality player.

Particularly agree about simplicity and role defined play, especially for struggling teams. My other big bugbear is teams succeed through the building of partnerships across the pitch. Something that's easier with simple clearly defined roles. And something that's not helped by constantlh asking players to switch position. Bad enough game to game, but doing it mid-game is bonkers imo.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by leon » 24 Nov 2025 12:34

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leon
Snowflake Royal Movement and temperement, every time he's played. He's one of the consistently few players who show for the ball, run all game and try to take people on and make things happen.

If he had the passing and decision making it wouldn't be a question.


you're describing a winger not a no 10.

You could say the same about Knibbs, with the difference being he's obviously a more polished player.

If you think showing for the ball, running and pressing and trying to take people on are solely the domain of wingers, I can only assume you've never watched football.


because I said that didn't I? :|

you were the one saying he didn't have 50% of the attributes required - I was merely saying with the 50% he had he sounded more like a winger than a number 10.

Are you this obnoxious in real life? Do you find people don't talk to you after a while?

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Nov 2025 12:37

Hound Agree on the loans and would be looking to loan further players out as well - hopefully will give us the space to bring in a decent CF to play the system. Kelvin is always going to split opinions but he’s done reasonably well but still prefer him out wide

Not sure when Elliott is back fit (if ever) and he could be the #10 option when needed but I’d rather is change the formation and system. Wing isn’t a CAM nowadays. Savage better as a box to box

I'd keep Jacob. Dorsett could be needed at CB, either in the case of injury or switching to a back 3.

Ryan hasn't impressed me, and whilst he can play there, I'd rather we weren’t relying on Garcia. Yes, both Abrefa and Yids can cover too, but that's starting to stretch things and steal from elsewhere.

Anyone else thinking it was odd to give Williams a deal, even a short one,with Camara and Garcia back fit almost immediately afterwards?

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by andrew1957 » 24 Nov 2025 12:44

I thought Fraser was pretty good before he got injured and Elliott is a loss too - as he has also been very good at times. If rumours are true both are out long term and Doyle has been disappointing.

Maybe Rino is the answer with Wing and Savage. Playing Rino in a slightly more defensive role should allow Wing and Savage to get forward more. The question is whether Rino is fit enough to start a game at the moment.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by South Coast Royal » 24 Nov 2025 12:48

Snowflake Royal
Hound Agree on the loans and would be looking to loan further players out as well - hopefully will give us the space to bring in a decent CF to play the system. Kelvin is always going to split opinions but he’s done reasonably well but still prefer him out wide

Not sure when Elliott is back fit (if ever) and he could be the #10 option when needed but I’d rather is change the formation and system. Wing isn’t a CAM nowadays. Savage better as a box to box

I'd keep Jacob. Dorsett could be needed at CB, either in the case of injury or switching to a back 3.

Ryan hasn't impressed me, and whilst he can play there, I'd rather we weren’t relying on Garcia. Yes, both Abrefa and Yids can cover too, but that's starting to stretch things and steal from elsewhere.

Anyone else thinking it was odd to give Williams a deal, even a short one,with Camara and Garcia back fit almost immediately afterwards?


Mates with the manager?


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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Nov 2025 13:02

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Hound Agree on the loans and would be looking to loan further players out as well - hopefully will give us the space to bring in a decent CF to play the system. Kelvin is always going to split opinions but he’s done reasonably well but still prefer him out wide

Not sure when Elliott is back fit (if ever) and he could be the #10 option when needed but I’d rather is change the formation and system. Wing isn’t a CAM nowadays. Savage better as a box to box

I'd keep Jacob. Dorsett could be needed at CB, either in the case of injury or switching to a back 3.

Ryan hasn't impressed me, and whilst he can play there, I'd rather we weren’t relying on Garcia. Yes, both Abrefa and Yids can cover too, but that's starting to stretch things and steal from elsewhere.

Anyone else thinking it was odd to give Williams a deal, even a short one,with Camara and Garcia back fit almost immediately afterwards?


Mates with the manager?

Which one, he started training with us under Hunt and was signed under Richardson.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Sutekh » 24 Nov 2025 13:14

Re the LB role will Clarke and Ryan be good enough to make it and therefore save us from having to buy in even more players to try and find an answer?

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Hound » 24 Nov 2025 13:16

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal I'd keep Jacob. Dorsett could be needed at CB, either in the case of injury or switching to a back 3.

Ryan hasn't impressed me, and whilst he can play there, I'd rather we weren’t relying on Garcia. Yes, both Abrefa and Yids can cover too, but that's starting to stretch things and steal from elsewhere.

Anyone else thinking it was odd to give Williams a deal, even a short one,with Camara and Garcia back fit almost immediately afterwards?


Mates with the manager?

Which one, he started training with us under Hunt and was signed under Richardson.


Don’t think it was an odd decision. He looks pretty good and as you mentioned it’s very short term

Jacob is either quite significantly injured or not fancied at all, lane injured, Garcias fitness been scratchy all season, not really sure what Camara is still. Left side is lacking a bit - at least for now

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by South Coast Royal » 24 Nov 2025 16:09

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal I'd keep Jacob. Dorsett could be needed at CB, either in the case of injury or switching to a back 3.

Ryan hasn't impressed me, and whilst he can play there, I'd rather we weren’t relying on Garcia. Yes, both Abrefa and Yids can cover too, but that's starting to stretch things and steal from elsewhere.

Anyone else thinking it was odd to give Williams a deal, even a short one,with Camara and Garcia back fit almost immediately afterwards?


Mates with the manager?

Which one, he started training with us under Hunt and was signed under Richardson.


Correction, mates with Jacobsen.


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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Nov 2025 16:10

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Mates with the manager?

Which one, he started training with us under Hunt and was signed under Richardson.


Correction, mates with Jacobsen.

Ahh.

If Jacob is out longer term it make sense given he can also play FB.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Clyde1998 » 24 Nov 2025 16:42

South Coast Royal It cuts across the thread about what you hate about modern football that we are even talking about a midfielder being a DM , an AM or a 6 or an 8 or a 10.

IMHO if you set up with a midfield 3 then those 3 should be capable of performing both attacking and defensive roles.
One goes forward, one of the others drops back and they operate as a unit.


Take the current Prem. league leaders.
Yesterday they has Zubimendi, Rice and Eze and whereas Zubimendi might tend to play deepest the other two drop deeper and collect the ball and often end up in and around the opposition box.
Zubimendi has scored this season as well.
I don't like the exclusivity of a player being called defensive or attacking-it somehow gives them a let out if they are not doing one or other of those functions (e.g." I can't go forward as I am a defensive midfielder" or "my job is not to get back and defend as I am an attacking midfielder".)

Fluidity is what playing in midfield is all about and at the moment we kind of have a deep lying player in Wing who can't tackle, Savage who is wherever he feels like going but generally in the very middle of midfield plus AN other who, in the case of Doyle doesn't defend and in fact doesn't create much either.

Add in that we don't have much pace out wide nor a proper target man striker and it is no surprise that we are 3 places above the relegation places.

There are quite a few games before we can bring anybody new in and even then we tend to take a while to absorb players into the first team so Leam and his staff have got a big job on just to keep us out of those relegation places and the matter of an AM is just one of many issues to sort out out.

That all depends on what you want from a team and what you consider to be units in a positional sense.

I thought we looked our most dangerous in the Premier League under McDermott when we played an attacking midfield/wing trio of Kebe; McAnuff; and McCleary against Sunderland; with those three rotating between themselves (they had Leigertwood and Akpan(!) behind them for the defensive work). With the players we've got, an attacking trio of Ehibhatiomhan; Lane; and Kyerewaa rotating could have potential if we were to explore that.

Us bringing in Rinomhota could allow us to return to the 4-3-3 we were playing last season though, negating any need for an out-and-out AM anyway.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Clyde1998 » 24 Nov 2025 16:57

Extended-Phenotype With an AM you want a creative player, who understands space, with a good pass and a decent record for scoring goals outside of the box. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t put Wing in there.

I get that the old/current idea is to have Wing deep so he can “quarterback” long passes into the final third, but that’s not really working anymore. It’s not only wasting creative talent in a defensive position, I don’t actually think Wing is very good defensively.

My guess is that Hunt brought Doyle in for AM and sure, if you HAD to play Wing, Savage and Doyle in the middle, Doyle in AM with Wing and Savage behind him is probably the best arrangement. But I don’t think it’s the best arrangement when you make these players droppable.

Firstly, Doyle doesn’t need to walk into the starting 11 on fire to be a success. Let him try to make his mark from the bench. God knows we need a bit of quality coming on later in the game. And to be honest, I’m not sure why Doyle can’t be played on the wing if we really want him on the pitch at the same time as our captain.

Secondly, we have better options for DM than Wing, that don’t have to be perfect. Elliot has a lot of athleticism and has done a job there before. Ritchie has an outstanding understanding of positioning. If you wanted more defensive options, we seem to be rather saturated with FBs and CBs - could Yiadom do a job there? Burns? Ahmed? Dorsett? Garcia? And if any of those are a bit radical, there’s the player absolutely nailed on for DM when he’s fit: Liam Fraser.

What seems to happen with Reading in every game I have watched this season, is that everything gets pressed into a scrap and Wing and Savage fall backwards leaving a void in the middle that the players we have been asking to control it simply fail to. So why NOT try out best player in this hole, and bring in a better defensive option to boot. It just seems so obvious.

Fairly certain Doyle was only brought in because we sold Knibbs.

I'm not sure we were expecting to sell Knibbs, but we got an offer we couldn't refuse (~£1.8m for a player out of contract in the summer) - so had to get a replacement in quickly. Doyle was never going to be the standard of Knibbs and was perhaps a bit of a panic loan.

Fwiw, Doyle's stats don't look too bad relative to the rest of the division's attacking midfielders/wingers (on a per 90 basis): https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/12 ... mari-doyle

One stat which really stands out is 'dispossessed' (being one of the worst in the league), an issue for him last season at Crawley too. I think he's almost too lightweight for the division and needs to bulk up a bit; that would allow him to retain the ball better.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by WestYorksRoyal » 24 Nov 2025 17:58

Clyde1998
Extended-Phenotype With an AM you want a creative player, who understands space, with a good pass and a decent record for scoring goals outside of the box. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t put Wing in there.

I get that the old/current idea is to have Wing deep so he can “quarterback” long passes into the final third, but that’s not really working anymore. It’s not only wasting creative talent in a defensive position, I don’t actually think Wing is very good defensively.

My guess is that Hunt brought Doyle in for AM and sure, if you HAD to play Wing, Savage and Doyle in the middle, Doyle in AM with Wing and Savage behind him is probably the best arrangement. But I don’t think it’s the best arrangement when you make these players droppable.

Firstly, Doyle doesn’t need to walk into the starting 11 on fire to be a success. Let him try to make his mark from the bench. God knows we need a bit of quality coming on later in the game. And to be honest, I’m not sure why Doyle can’t be played on the wing if we really want him on the pitch at the same time as our captain.

Secondly, we have better options for DM than Wing, that don’t have to be perfect. Elliot has a lot of athleticism and has done a job there before. Ritchie has an outstanding understanding of positioning. If you wanted more defensive options, we seem to be rather saturated with FBs and CBs - could Yiadom do a job there? Burns? Ahmed? Dorsett? Garcia? And if any of those are a bit radical, there’s the player absolutely nailed on for DM when he’s fit: Liam Fraser.

What seems to happen with Reading in every game I have watched this season, is that everything gets pressed into a scrap and Wing and Savage fall backwards leaving a void in the middle that the players we have been asking to control it simply fail to. So why NOT try out best player in this hole, and bring in a better defensive option to boot. It just seems so obvious.

Fairly certain Doyle was only brought in because we sold Knibbs.

I'm not sure we were expecting to sell Knibbs, but we got an offer we couldn't refuse (~£1.8m for a player out of contract in the summer) - so had to get a replacement in quickly. Doyle was never going to be the standard of Knibbs and was perhaps a bit of a panic loan.

Fwiw, Doyle's stats don't look too bad relative to the rest of the division's attacking midfielders/wingers (on a per 90 basis): https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/12 ... mari-doyle

One stat which really stands out is 'dispossessed' (being one of the worst in the league), an issue for him last season at Crawley too. I think he's almost too lightweight for the division and needs to bulk up a bit; that would allow him to retain the ball better.

Doyle was not a panic signing. He had a great spell at Crawley last season, we were lining him up the moment there were Knibbs rumours and the fan response was one of excitement.

For whatever reason, we're not getting the best out of him. It's the management team's job to figure out why.


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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Vision » 24 Nov 2025 18:04

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Clyde1998
Extended-Phenotype With an AM you want a creative player, who understands space, with a good pass and a decent record for scoring goals outside of the box. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t put Wing in there.

I get that the old/current idea is to have Wing deep so he can “quarterback” long passes into the final third, but that’s not really working anymore. It’s not only wasting creative talent in a defensive position, I don’t actually think Wing is very good defensively.

My guess is that Hunt brought Doyle in for AM and sure, if you HAD to play Wing, Savage and Doyle in the middle, Doyle in AM with Wing and Savage behind him is probably the best arrangement. But I don’t think it’s the best arrangement when you make these players droppable.

Firstly, Doyle doesn’t need to walk into the starting 11 on fire to be a success. Let him try to make his mark from the bench. God knows we need a bit of quality coming on later in the game. And to be honest, I’m not sure why Doyle can’t be played on the wing if we really want him on the pitch at the same time as our captain.

Secondly, we have better options for DM than Wing, that don’t have to be perfect. Elliot has a lot of athleticism and has done a job there before. Ritchie has an outstanding understanding of positioning. If you wanted more defensive options, we seem to be rather saturated with FBs and CBs - could Yiadom do a job there? Burns? Ahmed? Dorsett? Garcia? And if any of those are a bit radical, there’s the player absolutely nailed on for DM when he’s fit: Liam Fraser.

What seems to happen with Reading in every game I have watched this season, is that everything gets pressed into a scrap and Wing and Savage fall backwards leaving a void in the middle that the players we have been asking to control it simply fail to. So why NOT try out best player in this hole, and bring in a better defensive option to boot. It just seems so obvious.

Fairly certain Doyle was only brought in because we sold Knibbs.

I'm not sure we were expecting to sell Knibbs, but we got an offer we couldn't refuse (~£1.8m for a player out of contract in the summer) - so had to get a replacement in quickly. Doyle was never going to be the standard of Knibbs and was perhaps a bit of a panic loan.

Fwiw, Doyle's stats don't look too bad relative to the rest of the division's attacking midfielders/wingers (on a per 90 basis): https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/12 ... mari-doyle

One stat which really stands out is 'dispossessed' (being one of the worst in the league), an issue for him last season at Crawley too. I think he's almost too lightweight for the division and needs to bulk up a bit; that would allow him to retain the ball better.

Doyle was not a panic signing. He had a great spell at Crawley last season, we were lining him up the moment there were Knibbs rumours and the fan response was one of excitement.

For whatever reason, we're not getting the best out of him. It's the management team's job to figure out why.


He seems to have stopped doing the thing we presumably signed him for, which was to take players on to create space for him and others.

The early cameos you could see what he was all about but we've seen little of it since. I wonder if someone has got onto him about that "dispossessed" stat and it's in his head now.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Esteban » 24 Nov 2025 19:10

West F Do the sensible thing and don’t have one. If there is an insistence on playing a 4 3 3, play a flat three that pushes and drops, in and out of possession. When Knibbs was here, he actually played more of a free role off of Smith, more than as a creative number 10. He was never a midfield player and doesn’t have the game for it as Charlton have found out. When Elliot played last season in the midfield, he did so from a deeper position than that of a number 10. With the current squad as it is, the best option for the Knibbs ‘free role’ would be Marriott off of Ehibhatiomhan.
If it is clear that we don’t really have a creative and linking number 10 in the squad. Adapt, evolve and change.


+1

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Crowbar6753 » 25 Nov 2025 16:44

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Personally I'd stick Kyerewaa in that hole.


When has he ever demonstrated the passing ability, movement, decision making or temperament to play a number 10 role?

Movement and temperement, every time he's played. He's one of the consistently few players who show for the ball, run all game and try to take people on and make things happen.

If he had the passing and decision making it wouldn't be a question.


Good call, however, if he did have the passing and decision making then he probably wouldn't be at Reading he would be in the Championship or higher>

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Clyde1998 » 25 Nov 2025 16:51

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Extended-Phenotype With an AM you want a creative player, who understands space, with a good pass and a decent record for scoring goals outside of the box. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t put Wing in there.

I get that the old/current idea is to have Wing deep so he can “quarterback” long passes into the final third, but that’s not really working anymore. It’s not only wasting creative talent in a defensive position, I don’t actually think Wing is very good defensively.

My guess is that Hunt brought Doyle in for AM and sure, if you HAD to play Wing, Savage and Doyle in the middle, Doyle in AM with Wing and Savage behind him is probably the best arrangement. But I don’t think it’s the best arrangement when you make these players droppable.

Firstly, Doyle doesn’t need to walk into the starting 11 on fire to be a success. Let him try to make his mark from the bench. God knows we need a bit of quality coming on later in the game. And to be honest, I’m not sure why Doyle can’t be played on the wing if we really want him on the pitch at the same time as our captain.

Secondly, we have better options for DM than Wing, that don’t have to be perfect. Elliot has a lot of athleticism and has done a job there before. Ritchie has an outstanding understanding of positioning. If you wanted more defensive options, we seem to be rather saturated with FBs and CBs - could Yiadom do a job there? Burns? Ahmed? Dorsett? Garcia? And if any of those are a bit radical, there’s the player absolutely nailed on for DM when he’s fit: Liam Fraser.

What seems to happen with Reading in every game I have watched this season, is that everything gets pressed into a scrap and Wing and Savage fall backwards leaving a void in the middle that the players we have been asking to control it simply fail to. So why NOT try out best player in this hole, and bring in a better defensive option to boot. It just seems so obvious.

Fairly certain Doyle was only brought in because we sold Knibbs.

I'm not sure we were expecting to sell Knibbs, but we got an offer we couldn't refuse (~£1.8m for a player out of contract in the summer) - so had to get a replacement in quickly. Doyle was never going to be the standard of Knibbs and was perhaps a bit of a panic loan.

Fwiw, Doyle's stats don't look too bad relative to the rest of the division's attacking midfielders/wingers (on a per 90 basis): https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/12 ... mari-doyle

One stat which really stands out is 'dispossessed' (being one of the worst in the league), an issue for him last season at Crawley too. I think he's almost too lightweight for the division and needs to bulk up a bit; that would allow him to retain the ball better.

Doyle was not a panic signing. He had a great spell at Crawley last season, we were lining him up the moment there were Knibbs rumours and the fan response was one of excitement.

For whatever reason, we're not getting the best out of him. It's the management team's job to figure out why.

Maybe 'panic' isn't the right term, but if we thought we were getting a direct replacement for Knibbs, then there was a failure of recruitment to think he would do the same things as Knibbs; he's more of an Elliott alternative.

Certainly wouldn't take any fan response to a signing with any deal of relevance, as most would've hardly seen him play regularly prior to us signing him and we've seen plenty of players perform very differently to fan expectations when they signed for a club (not just at Reading).

Whether it's tactical; mental; whatever - he hasn't done what we've needed him to do.

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Clyde1998 Fairly certain Doyle was only brought in because we sold Knibbs.

I'm not sure we were expecting to sell Knibbs, but we got an offer we couldn't refuse (~£1.8m for a player out of contract in the summer) - so had to get a replacement in quickly. Doyle was never going to be the standard of Knibbs and was perhaps a bit of a panic loan.

Fwiw, Doyle's stats don't look too bad relative to the rest of the division's attacking midfielders/wingers (on a per 90 basis): https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/12 ... mari-doyle

One stat which really stands out is 'dispossessed' (being one of the worst in the league), an issue for him last season at Crawley too. I think he's almost too lightweight for the division and needs to bulk up a bit; that would allow him to retain the ball better.

Doyle was not a panic signing. He had a great spell at Crawley last season, we were lining him up the moment there were Knibbs rumours and the fan response was one of excitement.

For whatever reason, we're not getting the best out of him. It's the management team's job to figure out why.


He seems to have stopped doing the thing we presumably signed him for, which was to take players on to create space for him and others.

The early cameos you could see what he was all about but we've seen little of it since. I wonder if someone has got onto him about that "dispossessed" stat and it's in his head now.

IIRC, 'dispossessed' relates to losing possession - excluding any attempted dribbles past players. It would be him being tackled; knocked off the ball; or any poor touches without attempting to beat a man or pass the ball.

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Crowbar6753
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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Crowbar6753 » 25 Nov 2025 17:00

Fezza Slightly random choice for me, if Kelvin E is needed up top, probably Matt Ritchie; he has the intelligence to arrive at the right time, the range of passing and the close skills. Lane could get there in time, although his confidence (and fitness) looks shot.

In terms of what then happens with the right wing, I'd move Kelvin A up - he has excellent pace (something we lack in the main) and puts in a decent cross - this allows Yiadom back in.

I'd be sending all of our loan players back in January, bringing Kanu back if we felt we needed it! Ryan has enough about him to nail down LB.



I'm kind of with you here Fezza however, it would leave us super short on cover if they all left!! I don't feel any of the loanee's have done any better than any of the youngster's we were playing last season from the academy? You may get more consistency from the loanee's if they have more experience yet homegrown youngsters you would think would give that extra 10% due to their loyalty and ties to the club!
Also as a fan i would much rather see one of our youngster's given the opportunity over a loanee if good enough.
Last season we were all singing the praise's of the academy and rightly so, without it we may not have been here today.
Saying that, i believe there has to be a balance and last season we could have used a few loanee's in the squad however, our hands were tied. This season i feel we have gone the other way and maybe over did it on loanee's and free transfers and now blocking the pathway of a few of our more promising youngsters.

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Vision
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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Vision » 25 Nov 2025 17:21

Clyde1998
Vision
WestYorksRoyal Doyle was not a panic signing. He had a great spell at Crawley last season, we were lining him up the moment there were Knibbs rumours and the fan response was one of excitement.

For whatever reason, we're not getting the best out of him. It's the management team's job to figure out why.


He seems to have stopped doing the thing we presumably signed him for, which was to take players on to create space for him and others.

The early cameos you could see what he was all about but we've seen little of it since. I wonder if someone has got onto him about that "dispossessed" stat and it's in his head now.

IIRC, 'dispossessed' relates to losing possession - excluding any attempted dribbles past players. It would be him being tackled; knocked off the ball; or any poor touches without attempting to beat a man or pass the ball.


Well if that is the metric then it seems like a thunderously pointless stat to me. WTF else is he going to be trying to do other than beat a man or pass it? Might just as well call it "miscontrolled" and be done with it ;-)

I still maintain he doesn't attempt to beat a man or try anything remotely creative compared to his first couple of appearances for us.

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Re: What to do with the troublesome AM role?

by Snowflake Royal » 25 Nov 2025 17:35

Crowbar6753
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When has he ever demonstrated the passing ability, movement, decision making or temperament to play a number 10 role?

Movement and temperement, every time he's played. He's one of the consistently few players who show for the ball, run all game and try to take people on and make things happen.

If he had the passing and decision making it wouldn't be a question.


Good call, however, if he did have the passing and decision making then he probably wouldn't be at Reading he would be in the Championship or higher>

Yeah, that's what I meant. He'd be a star player.

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