Ins and Outs – 2017/18

[NewCorkSeth]

What I imagine the core of our current team to be is
GK - Al-Habsi, Jaakola
DR - Gunter, Watson
DL - Obita
DC - McShane, Moore, Ilori, Blackett
CM - Williams, Evans, Swift, Kelly, JVDB
W - McCleary, Beerens
ST - Kermorgant

There are some glaring holes (albeit round holes we have square pegs to fill) but the last thing we should do this summer barring a mass departure is sign players to play second fiddle to Obita and Kermorgant for example. We have those players for the most part in the list below.

That leaves the following (not including youth prospects) in a sort of limbo.
GK - Bond
DR
DL
DC - Cooper, Gravenberch
CM - Weiser, Quinn
W - Harriott, Popa, Hurtado
ST - Mendes, Rakels, Samuel, Meite

I imagine with Stams comment about certain players being told this summer that they need to find a new club that a few players on the second list will look be sold. What are the opinions on Bond? Is it likely he will ever get a look in? I also presume the end is near for Quinn, Samuel and Rakels.

[maffff]

For me I'd persevere with:

----------------------Ali*
--Gunter*-Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita--
--------------------Evans
----------------Kelly^--Swift^
--------------------GMac"
----------------Kermorgant*

Keep Beerens, Mendes, Popa, McShane* and Joey* on the bench. We'd need 3/4 new players to pad the bench money depending, alternatively 3/4 new first team upgrades to push those above to the bench/challenge them to keep their places.

* one more year - look for upgrades this close season if we can't promote from within.
^ assuming we don't manage to keep Williams. We need another player for central midfield if we lose him
" if he comes back ok post yet another injury plagued year.

The back looks pretty solid, midfield/upfront looks lightweight. However the 8 in-front of Ali are all u25 - good young base there. Why break it up as it'll only improve as it sticks together? If we want 5 at the back RCB - LB looks good - Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita work great together.

Hopefully Swift can regain his form soon.

Legg, Hurtado, Jaakkola, Andresson, Dickie, Meite, Harriott, Stacey, Ward, Jules, Gravenberch, Wieser, Quinn (owing to injury) and Sheppard should all be looked at as to whether they are good enough, or could be, and a decision made - loan/sell/keep. I'm only erring on the 'chance' for Wieser because of length of contract (there must be a reason?) and Gravenberch because he's still young.

Sell Bond, Cooper, Keown, Fosu (if he signs a new deal), Rakels, Samuel (Return Grabban, Mutch, Oxford)

Keep Southwood, Holsgrove, Barrett, Loader, with the youth team.

[RoyalJones]

What I imagine the core of our current team to be is
GK - Al-Habsi, Jaakola
DR - Gunter, Watson
DL - Obita
DC - McShane, Moore, Ilori, Blackett
CM - Williams, Evans, Swift, Kelly, JVDB
W - McCleary, Beerens
ST - Kermorgant

There are some glaring holes (albeit round holes we have square pegs to fill) but the last thing we should do this summer barring a mass departure is sign players to play second fiddle to Obita and Kermorgant for example. We have those players for the most part in the list below.

That leaves the following (not including youth prospects) in a sort of limbo.
GK - Bond
DR
DL
DC - Cooper, Gravenberch
CM - Weiser, Quinn
W - Harriott, Popa, Hurtado
ST - Mendes, Rakels, Samuel, Meite

I imagine with Stams comment about certain players being told this summer that they need to find a new club that a few players on the second list will look be sold. What are the opinions on Bond? Is it likely he will ever get a look in? I also presume the end is near for Quinn, Samuel and Rakels.

It's a shame because I actually though Quinn was a very useful player for us in the 15/16 season. Especially at home against Ipswich in the 5-1 win. I guess even Vydra played well that game though. Cooper just doesn't suit Jaap's style at all. Danzell was a strange signing, think it was made by Tevreden. Harriott looked like a good player in the first half of the season. I think he still has a lot to give us, controversially i'm going to say he has more to give than Beerens, who is quite inconsistent. I think Stam may give Samuel one more more to prove himself before he is turfed out, I also think the same will happen to Samuel and Mendes. Meite has a lot of potential but he may need to go out on loan to prove himself before coming back here. On the subject of Bond, it's a difficult one because he featured quite regularly in the first team for Watford a couple of years back, but has looked shaky since coming to Reading. I thought he was a bargain when we found out Clarke has purchased him. I would give him one more chance to prove himself out on loan. And if that loan is successful, maybe he could be slowly integrated in to the first team to replace an ageing Al Habsi, although Southwood may have more to offer to the Reading team. Hurtado should be given a chance in the first team to prove himself and Popa may also need more time.

[RoyalJones]

For me I'd persevere with:

----------------------Ali*
--Gunter*-Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita--
--------------------Evans
----------------Kelly^--Swift^
--------------------GMac"
----------------Kermorgant*

Keep Beerens, Mendes, Popa, McShane* and Joey* on the bench. We'd need 3/4 new players to pad the bench money depending, alternatively 3/4 new first team upgrades to push those above to the bench/challenge them to keep their places.

* one more year - look for upgrades this close season if we can't promote from within.
^ assuming we don't manage to keep Williams. We need another player for central midfield if we lose him
" if he comes back ok post yet another injury plagued year.

The back looks pretty solid, midfield/upfront looks lightweight. However the 8 in-front of Ali are all u25 - good young base there. Why break it up as it'll only improve as it sticks together? If we want 5 at the back RCB - LB looks good - Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita work great together.

Hopefully Swift can regain his form soon.

Legg, Hurtado, Jaakkola, Andresson, Dickie, Meite, Harriott, Stacey, Ward, Jules, Gravenberch, Wieser, Quinn (owing to injury) and Sheppard should all be looked at as to whether they are good enough, or could be, and a decision made - loan/sell/keep. I'm only erring on the 'chance' for Wieser because of length of contract (there must be a reason?) and Gravenberch because he's still young.

Sell Bond, Cooper, Keown, Fosu (if he signs a new deal), Rakels, Samuel (Return Grabban, Mutch, Oxford)

Keep Southwood, Holsgrove, Barrett, Loader, with the youth team.

I would personally keep Andresson to have a look at him to see the extent of his qualities, could he follow a similar path to Liam Kelly after coming back off loan from Bath City? Who knows? I would also keep Keown because he may be a valuable asset to the team in the near future, after impressing out on loan at Partick Thistle against sides like Celtic.

[maffff]

I would personally keep Andresson to have a look at him to see the extent of his qualities, could he follow a similar path to Liam Kelly after coming back off loan from Bath City? Who knows? I would also keep Keown because he may be a valuable asset to the team in the near future, after impressing out on loan at Partick Thistle against sides like Celtic.

Agreed on Andresson up there. Stam should look over him (as suggested up there).

Not convinced by Keown, but given he has another year on his contract no doubt pre-season will be used to decide if he's good enough to be involved now, if he needs another loan or if we should get shot.

Given Keown did well against the likes of Celtic we know he'd probably be suitable for someone like Millwall. Depends what the gap is to step up to where we are.

[tomrfcurz]

What I imagine the core of our current team to be is
GK - Al-Habsi, Jaakola
DR - Gunter, Watson
DL - Obita
DC - McShane, Moore, Ilori, Blackett
CM - Williams, Evans, Swift, Kelly, JVDB
W - McCleary, Beerens
ST - Kermorgant

There are some glaring holes (albeit round holes we have square pegs to fill) but the last thing we should do this summer barring a mass departure is sign players to play second fiddle to Obita and Kermorgant for example. We have those players for the most part in the list below.

That leaves the following (not including youth prospects) in a sort of limbo.
GK - Bond
DR
DL
DC - Cooper, Gravenberch
CM - Weiser, Quinn
W - Harriott, Popa, Hurtado
ST - Mendes, Rakels, Samuel, Meite

I imagine with Stams comment about certain players being told this summer that they need to find a new club that a few players on the second list will look be sold. What are the opinions on Bond? Is it likely he will ever get a look in? I also presume the end is near for Quinn, Samuel and Rakels.

Out of that second list these are the players who I think will move.

GK - Bond (sell)
DC - Cooper (sell), Gravenberch (loan until contract expiry as no club will pay a fee unless contract paid up)
CM - Weiser (loan), Quinn (loan - same as Gravenberch)
ST - Rakels (sell), Samuel (sell), Meite (loan)

Rest won't go as far as I'm concerned. Beyond that it's just about if we resist offers for any 1st teamers

[maffff]

Danzell has already been linked with a (free) transfer to Willem II

[mambo3]

Most of what I am seeing on this forum is the same squad being chosen for next season and the fringe players to be sold or released. that aint rocket science. Defence needs to be broken up and rebuilt, that's obvious by our poor record defensive record it seems most people on this forum have memory loss. The Midfield also has too many leaks and more often then not did not have the technique or
pace to know what to do with the ball. Why is our main striker is our Best Defender needs to be addressed because while he's defending who's playing up front. what is more important is it must be no fun sitting on that Bench cause you know that even if you score or play well
Stamm has his starters which adds pressure to the subs. Feel sorry for Mendes.

[CountryRoyal]

For me I'd persevere with:

----------------------Ali*
--Gunter*-Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita--
--------------------Evans
----------------Kelly^--Swift^
--------------------GMac"
----------------Kermorgant*

Keep Beerens, Mendes, Popa, McShane* and Joey* on the bench. We'd need 3/4 new players to pad the bench money depending, alternatively 3/4 new first team upgrades to push those above to the bench/challenge them to keep their places.

* one more year - look for upgrades this close season if we can't promote from within.
^ assuming we don't manage to keep Williams. We need another player for central midfield if we lose him
" if he comes back ok post yet another injury plagued year.

The back looks pretty solid, midfield/upfront looks lightweight. However the 8 in-front of Ali are all u25 - good young base there. Why break it up as it'll only improve as it sticks together? If we want 5 at the back RCB - LB looks good - Ilori-Moore-Blackett-Obita work great together.

Hopefully Swift can regain his form soon.

Legg, Hurtado, Jaakkola, Andresson, Dickie, Meite, Harriott, Stacey, Ward, Jules, Gravenberch, Wieser, Quinn (owing to injury) and Sheppard should all be looked at as to whether they are good enough, or could be, and a decision made - loan/sell/keep. I'm only erring on the 'chance' for Wieser because of length of contract (there must be a reason?) and Gravenberch because he's still young.

Sell Bond, Cooper, Keown, Fosu (if he signs a new deal), Rakels, Samuel (Return Grabban, Mutch, Oxford)

Keep Southwood, Holsgrove, Barrett, Loader, with the youth team.

I would personally keep Andresson to have a look at him to see the extent of his qualities, could he follow a similar path to Liam Kelly after coming back off loan from Bath City? Who knows? I would also keep Keown because he may be a valuable asset to the team in the near future, after impressing out on loan at Partick Thistle against sides like Celtic.

Tbf there are no sides like Celtic, apart from Celtic. League is shocking.

Cooper played well against Everton and had Lukaku in his pocket. Doesn't make him a good player.

[Ian Royal]

You've used this argument before. Garath McCleary's record must be virtually identical, but you've never made the same case about him. I wonder why!

It's probably because it's transparently evident in McCleary's game that timidity and caution aren't an issue. There are clear differences to their careers too. McCleary started in non-league and successfully stepped up several tiers, that takes a winning mentality. Gunter's always been Championship, except when he was failing in the PL. McCleary was at Forest longer, but started less than a quarter of the games. He was far from a mainstay of their side. He's also spent a lot of time out injured here. Gunter's been ever present except when dropped for being not good enough in the PL. McCleary made significantly more impressive impression for us in the PL than Gunter despite being signed as back up for Kebe rather than first choice.

The comparison is basically crap.

A lovely guy.

And you say this so often, while blaming him for anything and everything (you haven't even seen him for most of this season), it's beginning to smack of "Some of my best friends are" territory

Gunter gets a lot of unnecessary abuse. He's not shit as some would say. He's not a mercenary lazy arse. I think it's worth pointing out the positives when criticising someone and showing it's not down to personal dislike, or just totally one-eyed. I've seen him half a dozen times this season and in plenty of highlights. Having watched him every other week for three years and plenty the year before, I don't see any sign of any difference in how he plays or performs. Why do I need to see him every week this year having amassed dozens and dozens of hours watching him do the same things all the time?

Unless he wants to leave, he'll be in Stam's plans. As he was for all of our previous managers, apart from some doubts from BMcD in his first season (and as both of his replacements were worse, he should have stuck with him!), and as he has been for a very successful Welsh team.

As I've said before, we've had far higher priorities in the past and limited resources. But if we want to aspire to successful promotion and staying up, we need better. We should be aiming to get it this summer. He's nothing more than adequate. I aspire to better than that.

Just as some further examples. Take Nicky Shorey and that first game against Middlesbrough in the PL. The team came out and froze in the headlights. We got punished. From the off, Shorey spooned a ball down the line up and into the crowd from the kick off. But, Shorey was a winner, his game was positive. About 20 - 30 minutes in, he relaxed and just got on with his game, because it couldn't get much worse. He dropped his shoulder, beat his man and did a trade mark run up field. It lifted the entire team and we came out of our starting blocks, late, but effectively. Going on to win the game. You will never, ever, see Gunter do something like that. Because he's safety first. He's not positive.

So since you've decided to grace us with your presence next season, you'll get to see him every second week. Enjoy!

Yay. Excuse me if I don't jump for joy.

[CountryRoyal]

I'm not a Gunter fan but even I can't deny his performances in recent months, on the whole, have been much improved imho.

[RoyalJones]

Most of what I am seeing on this forum is the same squad being chosen for next season and the fringe players to be sold or released. that aint rocket science. Defence needs to be broken up and rebuilt, that's obvious by our poor record defensive record it seems most people on this forum have memory loss. The Midfield also has too many leaks and more often then not did not have the technique or
pace to know what to do with the ball. Why is our main striker is our Best Defender needs to be addressed because while he's defending who's playing up front. what is more important is it must be no fun sitting on that Bench cause you know that even if you score or play well
Stamm has his starters which adds pressure to the subs. Feel sorry for Mendes.

With Ilori in the side for league games plus the playoffs, we have conceded less than a goal a game, for the eight games he's played in. He could be the catalyst for a much improved defence. Moore has on the whole been a very good signing. Obita has been much improved although he will need to carry that on next season. McShane has been reasonably good and Gunter isn't the worst along with Blackett so our defence is looking much better on the whole.

[muirinho]

You've used this argument before. Garath McCleary's record must be virtually identical, but you've never made the same case about him. I wonder why!

It's probably because it's transparently evident in McCleary's game that timidity and caution aren't an issue. There are clear differences to their careers too. McCleary started in non-league and successfully stepped up several tiers, that takes a winning mentality. Gunter's always been Championship, except when he was failing in the PL. McCleary was at Forest longer, but started less than a quarter of the games. He was far from a mainstay of their side. He's also spent a lot of time out injured here. Gunter's been ever present except when dropped for being not good enough in the PL. McCleary made significantly more impressive impression for us in the PL than Gunter despite being signed as back up for Kebe rather than first choice.

So - you're not blaming McCleary for Nottingham Forest's promotion failures, because he wasn't a key part of the team.
But in the PL season, relegation wasn't McCleary's fault because he was a key part of the team.

Hmmm!

You included a season and a half at Cardiff, when Gunter was 17, just starting out, and only playing a smattering of games in your list of "times he failed to get a team promoted"

You're saying that when Nottingham Forest had him for a couple of months on loan, that was what caused them not to be promoted?

This makes as much sense as a Donald Trump on a bad day.
What sort of ju-ju bad-vibe aura do you think he has, that he can cause a team to fail over the course of 46 games, when he was present in the club for 8 of them? He played nearly as many games for Spurs in Europe as he did for Forest that season, how on earth did they manage to get out of the group stages with that kind of black magic swirling around?

So don't talk to me about crap comparisons. That entire argument is complete hogwash.

You're saying you like him as a person, but when you spout rubbish like this, to try to explain why you don't want him at the club, either you're incredibly stupid, or you're trying to disguise the fact that you loath him for some irrational reason you don't even want to admit to. It must be stupidity then, since you're denying some personal vendetta.

It's "transparently evident" that you'd blame him for the rain if you could.

Which means you cannot ever judge him as a player, because you clearly can't be objective.

Just as some further examples. Take Nicky Shorey and that first game against Middlesbrough in the PL. The team came out and froze in the headlights. We got punished. From the off, Shorey spooned a ball down the line up and into the crowd from the kick off. But, Shorey was a winner, his game was positive. About 20 - 30 minutes in, he relaxed and just got on with his game, because it couldn't get much worse. He dropped his shoulder, beat his man and did a trade mark run up field. It lifted the entire team and we came out of our starting blocks, late, but effectively. Going on to win the game.

Are you comparing every player with Nicky Shorey in that game?

Or is it only Chris Gunter, that has to match that?

You will never, ever, see Gunter do something like that. Because he's safety first. He's not positive.

No, you won't. Because when he does put in a captain's performance, you wouldn't be capable of acknowledging it had anything to do with him.

It was somebody else who put in the perfect cross for the goal voted best of the season
It was somebody else who weighed in with a key pass and an assist, in the comeback at Bristol city
It was somebody else who was captain for the back-to-the wall, must win performances at Sheffield Wednesday and Aston Villa
It was somebody else who defended so well for all three play-off games that he's the only Reading player to make the EFL team of the playoffs.

This team has shown itself to be incredibly resilient throughout the season. And he has been a key part of that.

It's all very well saying "We need better". You could say that about every single player on this team. None of them have done it consistently at PL.

But if you're looking to boost the squad, you get rid of the players that haven't been good enough to play lots of games this season. You look at the fringes, not the spine. You look at the ones that haven't got any better, and don't fit the style. You look at the ones that are regularly dropped. Not the one that is first on the team sheet every game, and has definitely improved this season.

Unless you aren't rational, when it comes to that player.

[Ian Royal]

I gave up after the first few paragraphs because you're not accurately representing what I was saying. You seem to be taking my criticism rather personally, and losing objectivity as a result.

[CountryRoyal]

It's well established that muirinho is in fact Garath McCleary. Don't talk about his mate like that

[Chappers93]

For me we need another LB - Mitchell Dijks who was on loan at Norwich from Ajax looked decent and surely has links to Stam and Brian T, still young too, think he wants to go there permanently though

Think we'll need another box to box midfielder to replace Williams as sadly can't see him staying, perhaps Joe Ledley on a free? Would add xperience

An attacking CM to help add goals, take the pressure off Swift and add a bit more creativity and more options in a long season (can't see Quinn being that player and Beerans/Popa are better off wide) perhaps the Watford player is who is lined up

And one possibly two strikers, would Grabban be one at the right price? He's ok at Champ level and Stam seems to like him, possibly a loan? Perhaps someone with a point to prove Sam Gallagher, Chupa Akpom?

Think sell Samuel, Cooper, Weiser, Denzel or loan as fringe players not needed or not an improvement on what we have

Think loan for Keown and Novackavic probably 1 or 2 other younger players for FL experience (Barrett, Dickie, Axel)

Interesting to see what happens if bids come in for Moore or Kelly hopefully we can keep them here for at least another year, also interested to see if Hurtado and Fosu gets another chance to impress or if we just gets sold or loaned again, would like to see Stacey involved more even as a squad player

Our biggest signing possible would obviously be Stam, hopefully it's on the priority of things to sort out and would help encourage players to both stay here and new players to come here too

[Oilroyal]

Burnley and Swansea City eyeing moves for separate Reading players, the Mirror reports. It's claimed that Burnley are weighing up a bid for Liam Moore, while Swansea are plotting to sign Liam Kelly.

No surprise there, although both having recently signed long term contracts offers will need to be good. Cant see either player pushing for a move tbh.

[CountryRoyal]

Burnley and Swansea City eyeing moves for separate Reading players, the Mirror reports. It's claimed that Burnley are weighing up a bid for Liam Moore, while Swansea are plotting to sign Liam Kelly.

No surprise there, although both having recently signed long term contracts offers will need to be good. Cant see either player pushing for a move tbh.

Lol they can both fcuk right off.

Liam Kelly swap deal for the Gylfster is the only thing I could almost work with.

[NewCorkSeth]

The Burnley/Liam Moore link has legs imo. With their best CB departing it was always likely they would look to the Championship to replace and I think we can all agree there are few CBs in the championship as worthy of investment as Moore. 24 y/o, proven quality, has repeated several time his need for first team football.
Burnley can offer all that to him with the added incentive of playing regularly in the Premier league. If we receive a high bid i expect the management will sell and I suspect Moore would be interested.

On the Liam Kelly thing I truly believe he would have to be nuts to want to go to Swansea. They are in for a hell of a desperate summer. They have the bones of a squad if they can hang on to Mawson, Ayew, Caroll and Gylfi (unlikely) and if Borja can find his scoring boots again. But they have nothing to offer Kelly but money.
If I were there id be looking at Williams as a cheap (free) replacement for Britton.
Anyone know whats happening to Llorente and Gomis?

[Hound]

In sure Moore is attracting interest from the Prem. right age, plenty of experience and seems to be a sensible lad

Be a big shame to lose him though. Be interesting to see what figures get bandied around - surely we wouldn't consider for less than 7-8m?