VAR

[6ft Kerplunk]

Is there a valid reason why VAR isn't used for spotting keepers moving off their line at penalties?

[Old Man Andrews]

Is there a valid reason why VAR isn't used for spotting keepers moving off their line at penalties?

Possibly so that they aren't deemed too picky. Every keeper in the history of time has come off his line a bit before a penalty is taken, you have to in order to dive. I think they are allowing the assistant referee to use their judgement as to if that movement is excessive or given the goalkeeper a huge advantage.

[Sanguine]

Is there a valid reason why VAR isn't used for spotting keepers moving off their line at penalties?

Possibly so that they aren't deemed too picky. Every keeper in the history of time has come off his line a bit before a penalty is taken, you have to in order to dive. I think they are allowing the assistant referee to use their judgement as to if that movement is excessive or given the goalkeeper a huge advantage.

That, and I think it's sensible. The only way to police it 'properly' would be where any blade of grass can be seen between keeper's back foot and the line. You'll end up with near zero penalties saved.

[6ft Kerplunk]

So why have the rule at all if you're not going to enforce it? They seem quite happy deal in mm for offside that's more difficult to judge.

[Zammo]

Can you imagine that red dotted line from the keepers bum to the white line

[Snowflake Royal]

Yep. I've been a big supporter of VAR, but it is becoming a caricature of itself now. Arguably two pens missed in the Liverpool game (Shane Long had his arms round Firmino's neck, and Fabinho's trip on Ings, after which Liverpool scored their first), and Sterling should have been sent off long before the 2-3 minutes it took to award City a penalty.

Thought the Long one was fair enough. If VAR asked the ref if he saw Long's contact and he did, then there's really no clear and obvious error. Firmino goes down really easy on what looks like minimal actual pressure, once it's clear the ball is sailing over him. If the ref hasn't seen that, then VAR should tell him to take a look on the monitor to make a decision.

Fabinho on Ings is absolutely baffling though. Appears to be clear contact, absolute nailed on.

It has been an absolute horror show of implementation.

Thought it did a really good job on Murray's goal though. Think the ref would have ruled it out as it really did look very much like a handball until the slow down and replays.

[Snowflake Royal]

So why have the rule at all if you're not going to enforce it? They seem quite happy deal in mm for offside that's more difficult to judge.

They enforce it on blatant offences. It's to encourage keepers not to take a huge step out and narrow the angle unfairly. A few milimeters in a microsecond has no real effect,

[Royal Rother]

So why have the rule at all if you're not going to enforce it? They seem quite happy deal in mm for offside that's more difficult to judge.

They enforce it on blatant offences. It's to encourage keepers not to take a huge step out and narrow the angle unfairly. A few milimeters in a microsecond has no real effect,

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

[Snowflake Royal]

So why have the rule at all if you're not going to enforce it? They seem quite happy deal in mm for offside that's more difficult to judge.

They enforce it on blatant offences. It's to encourage keepers not to take a huge step out and narrow the angle unfairly. A few milimeters in a microsecond has no real effect,

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

[Franchise FC]

They enforce it on blatant offences. It's to encourage keepers not to take a huge step out and narrow the angle unfairly. A few milimeters in a microsecond has no real effect,

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Isn't that entirely the point ?
If, as you say, staying still longer means less penalties are saved, then by definition moving (against the laws of the game) gives the goalkeeper an advantage he shouldn't have.

[Royal Rother]

They enforce it on blatant offences. It's to encourage keepers not to take a huge step out and narrow the angle unfairly. A few milimeters in a microsecond has no real effect,

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Of course it’s a different scenario but your principle of millimetres in a microsecond being an irrelevance applies in both cases, especially so in offsides when it is often less clear when the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.

[Sanguine]

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Isn't that entirely the point ?
If, as you say, staying still longer means less penalties are saved, then by definition moving (against the laws of the game) gives the goalkeeper an advantage he shouldn't have.

Like athletes might learn to 'anticipate' the starting gun (false starts are subject to a 0.100 seconds threshold), so goalkeepers are trying to time their movement off their line and to the side to give themselves the best possible chance of saving a penalty. The 'best' possible scenario for the keeper is that he moves off his line a millisecond after the kick is taken. But a) those margins are impossible to measure (a keeper's foot could be on and then off the line during the fraction of a second that the ball is in contact with the taker's boot), and b) the logical conclusion of enforcing the rule strictly and literally is that keepers are essentially stood still until the ball is nearly past them.

[Snowflake Royal]

Well yes, but the same comment applies to the fractional VAR offsides

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Of course it’s a different scenario but your principle of millimetres in a microsecond being an irrelevance applies in both cases, especially so in offsides when it is often less clear when the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.

And I said I don't agree with millimeters in offside anyway.

[Snowflake Royal]

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Isn't that entirely the point ?
If, as you say, staying still longer means less penalties are saved, then by definition moving (against the laws of the game) gives the goalkeeper an advantage he shouldn't have.

Like athletes might learn to 'anticipate' the starting gun (false starts are subject to a 0.100 seconds threshold), so goalkeepers are trying to time their movement off their line and to the side to give themselves the best possible chance of saving a penalty. The 'best' possible scenario for the keeper is that he moves off his line a millisecond after the kick is taken. But a) those margins are impossible to measure (a keeper's foot could be on and then off the line during the fraction of a second that the ball is in contact with the taker's boot), and b) the logical conclusion of enforcing the rule strictly and literally is that keepers are essentially stood still until the ball is nearly past them.

Thanks Sangers.

[BR0B0T]

Couple of points there... firstly I don't agree with a milimeter based approach in offside anyway.

Secondly, the scenario is somewhat different in that play carries on pending the check and then results in a free kick and moves on.

Pens, it results in a retake and you can end up in an endless loop of retaking a penalty. Also, there's no change to how either side plays with offside. With pens, you'd force keepers to stay still longer to be sure of not being pulled up and therefore harming their chance of making a save.

Of course it’s a different scenario but your principle of millimetres in a microsecond being an irrelevance applies in both cases, especially so in offsides when it is often less clear when the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.

And I said I don't agree with millimeters in offside anyway.

how do you measure it then

[Snowflake Royal]

Of course it’s a different scenario but your principle of millimetres in a microsecond being an irrelevance applies in both cases, especially so in offsides when it is often less clear when the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.

And I said I don't agree with millimeters in offside anyway.

how do you measure it then

You know how they do it in cricket with Umpire's call? Like that. Has to be clear and obvious error from the Lino.

Taking into account the margin of error in measurement might be sensible.

[stealthpapes]

Can anyone help me with Shrewsbury's last night, please?

[Sanguine]

Can anyone help me with Shrewsbury's last night, please?

Shrewsbury boss spot on here to highlight that VAR shouldn't be used to go so far back into a move, because it becomes subjective as to how far back remains relevant to the goal.

Scott Golbourne was offside in the build up to the goal, about 12 seconds before the ball hit the back of the net


Goal on the link below. To emphasise how far back in play the decision went, the still above has already happened when the 'goal' highlight starts at 1:41, Golbourne already has the ball.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/02/v ... hrewsbury/

[Silver Fox]

That's one of my big issues with VAR tbf, how far back is it worth looking at? It's mental that a corner can be given erroneously that a team could score from but VAR wouldn't be used to fix that clear and obvious error because the corner decision was such a long time before the goal.

[Old Man Andrews]

That's one of my big issues with VAR tbf, how far back is it worth looking at? It's mental that a corner can be given erroneously that a team could score from but VAR wouldn't be used to fix that clear and obvious error because the corner decision was such a long time before the goal.

Offside calls should relate purely to the player who scored the goal. Sick of this nonsense with someone being offside in the build up to the goal totally unrelated to the player who scored.