Away followings

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Clyde1998
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Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 09 Sep 2023 14:45

As we've got no game this weekend, I thought I'd post my data on away attendances this season:

2023-24 League One averages followings (last season's average in brackets)
  1. Derby - 2,880 (2,381)
  2. Wigan - 2,412 (1,123)
  3. Bolton - 1,557 (1,594)
  4. Leyton Orient - 1,535 (791)
  5. Charlton - 1,442 (955)
  6. Bristol Rovers - 1,355 (975)
  7. Portsmouth - 1,315 (1,555)
  8. Port Vale - 1,212 (1,025)
  9. Reading - 1,181 (894)
  10. Oxford - 1,044 (922)
  11. Peterborough - 1,028 (918)
  12. Stevenage - 906 (332)
  13. Cambridge - 822 (732)
  14. Northampton - 779 (674)
  15. Blackpool - 743 (1,066)
  16. Carlisle - 738 (769)
  17. Lincoln - 710 (775)
  18. Barnsley - 588 (1,205)
  19. Wycombe - 584 (575)
  20. Exeter - 579 (739)
  21. Cheltenham - 490 (334)
  22. Shrewsbury - 405 (618)
  23. Burton - 389 (319)
  24. Fleetwood - 272 (196)
I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from this, at this stage of the season, as it's highly dependant on where sides have played (particularly when it comes to capacities and distances) and when the fixtures have fallen (ie. midweek games will typically be lower than weekend).

Wigan have played Bolton, Derby, Blackpool and Carlisle away - all clubs who are relatively local who have sizeable away ends at this level. Wigan have the highest single away following so far with 3,937 at Bolton.

2023-24 Reading away followings (allocation in brackets; midweek matches in italics)
  1. Millwall (LC) - 730 (996)
  2. Port Vale - 1,132 (1,230)
  3. Exeter - 1,261 (1,337)
  4. Cambridge - 1,151 (1,427)
  5. Exeter (LT) - TBC (360)
  6. Blackpool - TBC (1,526)
  7. Northampton - TBC (1,473)
  8. Leyton Orient - SOLD OUT (1,200)
For our first four away matches, we've sold 85% of our allocation (89% for league matches).

For greater context, we took over 1,000 fans to seven of our first nineteen league games in the 2001-02 season (our previous third tier season). I don't have official numbers for our final four league games that season, but we almost certainly took over 1,000 to Bristol City and Brentford (I'm assuming we didn't take over 1,000 to Chesterfield or Tranmere, but both are possible given the context of the season). As a direct comparison, our attendances at Port Vale and Cambridge both exceed our 2001-02 followings at these grounds - Port Vale by roughly double.

Based on my data for last season, we took over 1,000 to only nine matches (one is based on a rounded estimate and one seems wrong - I can't imagine we took nearly 2,000 to Norwich).

To have three already 1,000+ followings already, plus Leyton Orient confirmed as sold out, shows a good effort from our travelling fans.

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St Pauli
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Re: Away followings

by St Pauli » 10 Sep 2023 10:24

The numbers are good but we haven't played most of these clubs on a regular basis for many years, so interest in 'new' grounds will be high.

The test will be when we stay in this league for 2, 3, more seasons. Which on current performances looks like the best when can hope for. :cry:

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Re: Away followings

by Royal_jimmy » 11 Sep 2023 09:03

It's definitely the new ground factor playing a big role and there being less 'treks' over 3-4 hours will encourage fans to go as well. Whilst I don't like this level of football, Cambridge was a lot more fun as a day out than going to somewhere like Middlesbrough or Swansea.

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Re: Away followings

by Brogue » 11 Sep 2023 13:28

new ground factor can be offset by the cost of living crisis imo. How much did it cost for an away game back in 2001 all in?

Price of a pint, a bit of scran train travel/petrol and ticket cost... and how much is that today?

Alot of people are just priced out of travelling away

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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 11 Sep 2023 15:13

Brogue new ground factor can be offset by the cost of living crisis imo.

We were also expected to be towards the top of the division in 2001-02, and we were top for a large part of it. We don't have any on-pitch success to drive away followings at the moment.

Brogue How much did it cost for an away game back in 2001 all in?

Some of the old tickets stubs on eBay gives some indication for ticket prices over time:

Standard adult seat ticket prices at Reading (league matches; prices adjusted for inflation in brackets)
  • 1988-89 - £5-6 (£13.19-15.83)
  • 1992-93 - £9 (£18.82)
  • 1993-94 - :?:
  • 1994-95 - £9 (£18) / £7.50 standing (£15)
  • 1995-96 - :?: / £8 standing (£15.59)
  • 1996-97 - £11 (£20.92) / £8 standing (£15.22)
  • 1997-98 - £13 (£24.29) / £9 standing (£16.81)
  • 1998-99 - £12 (£22.07)
  • 1999-00 - £12 (£21.78)
  • 2000-01 - £14 (£25.21)
  • 2001-02 - £13 (£23.13)
  • 2002-03 - £18 (£31.62)
  • 2003-04 - £18 (£31.20)
  • 2004-05 - £19 (£32.50)
  • 2005-06 - £22 (£36.87)
From what I've found, we used to be towards to top of ticket prices in our first decade (or so) at the Madejski which ever division we were in.

In terms of random away matches (for tickets which appear to be for away fans):
  • 1995-96 - Leicester - £10 seat (£19.48)
  • 1997-98 - Charlton - £13 seat (£23.91)
  • 1999-00 - Oxford - £12.50 standing (£22.69)
  • 2000-01 - Colchester - £10 standing (£18.01)/£11 seat (£19.97)
  • 2001-02 - Brentford - £9 standing (£16.01)
  • 2002-03 - Bradford - £13 seat (£22.84)
  • 2005-06 - Coventry - £21 seat (£35.19)
  • 2007-08 - Aston Villa - £28 seat (£44.82)
  • 2008-09 - Burnley - £20 seat (£30.90)
  • 2015-16 - Burnley - £24 seat (£31.42)
In our last spell in the third tier, I'd guess typical ticket prices would be roughly £20 (give or take £5) in today's money, now it seems to be £27/£28 (give or take £5). Of course, travel, food, drink, etc. isn't covered in that, but those have likely increased - especially travel.

The average person's wages has been stagnant (in the most part) since 2008 - after inflation - and their general living expenses has increased. As you say, people are being priced out of away games, football more generally and life even more generally.


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Re: Away followings

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Sep 2023 12:35

Attendance by miles travelled would be interesting.

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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 12 Sep 2023 14:19

Snowflake Royal Attendance by miles travelled would be interesting.
Some basic calculations for distance and travel time (as these things can be slightly different, especially depending on the proximity of motorways):

Attendance by one over average miles (top ten)
Average one-way miles for matches played so far
  1. Bolton - 182,091 (1,557 / (1 / 117.0))
  2. Derby - 177,004 (2,880 / (1 / 61.5))
  3. Reading - 162,276 (1,181 / (1 / 137.4))
  4. Bristol Rovers - 161,138 (1,173 / (1 / 137.3))
  5. Blackpool - 159,374 (743 / (1 / 214.5))
  6. Carlisle - 155,613 (738 / (1 / 211.0))
  7. Leyton Orient - 152,016 (1,535 / (1 / 99.0))
  8. Wigan - 142,354 (2,412 / (1 / 59.0))
  9. Port Vale - 140,592 (1,212 / (1 / 116.0))
  10. Oxford - 133,241 (1,044 / (1 / 127.7))
Attendance by one over average travel minutes (top five)
Average one-way travel minutes for matches played so far
  1. Derby - 229,413 (2,880 / (1 / 79.7))
  2. Bolton - 200,853 (1,557 / (1 / 129.0))
  3. Bristol Rovers - 188,516 (1,173 / (1 / 160.7))
  4. Leyton Orient - 176,013 (1,535 / (1 / 114.7))
  5. Reading - 173,262 (1,181 / (1 / 146.7))
In both cases, divide the large number by distance to estimate the number of fans who would travel that distance/time (eg. 162,276 / 25 = 6,930; 6,930 is the estimated number of fans we'd take to an average league game 25 miles away - capacity depending).

These are both linear calculations. In practice, there's probably a logarithmic relationship between distance/time and away followings (ie. big numbers locally, which drop of quickly before plateauing at a fairly constant level for further away matches). Other factors such as ticket prices, travel costs, time of game, day of game, television, etc. would affect the overall figure.

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Re: Away followings

by Elm Park Kid » 14 Sep 2023 11:11

Brogue new ground factor can be offset by the cost of living crisis imo. How much did it cost for an away game back in 2001 all in?

Price of a pint, a bit of scran train travel/petrol and ticket cost... and how much is that today?

Alot of people are just priced out of travelling away


I don't dismiss that there is a crisis going on for a good chunk of the population - but I think it's easy to go over the top with this stuff. The average person has a little bit less spending money right now but not like we've all become Bob Cratchit, trying to scrounge together enough coppers to buy Tiny Tim some crutches.

Clyde1998
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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 09 Oct 2023 17:51

Apparently I can't edit the OP, so to update:

2023-24 League One averages followings (last season's average in brackets)
  1. Derby - 2,293 (2,381)
  2. Bolton - 1,892 (1,594)
  3. Wigan - 1,653 (1,123)
  4. Portsmouth - 1,562 (1,555)
  5. Carlisle - 1,227 (769)
  6. Charlton - 1,205 (955)
  7. Reading - 1,121 (894)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,111 (791)
  9. Bristol Rovers - 1,050 (975)
  10. Oxford - 993 (922)
  11. Port Vale - 940 (1,025)
  12. Blackpool - 896 (1,066)
  13. Peterborough - 869 (918)
  14. Cambridge - 808 (732)
  15. Lincoln - 755 (775)
  16. Barnsley - 705 (1,205)
  17. Stevenage - 699 (332)
  18. Northampton - 665 (674)
  19. Exeter - 661 (739)
  20. Wycombe - 491 (575)
  21. Shrewsbury - 404 (618)
  22. Cheltenham - 336 (334)
  23. Burton - 312 (319)
  24. Fleetwood - 247 (196)
These will still be skewed by the teams each side has played so far this season. As an example, I believe Wigan have had both their closest matches already; both of whom have relatively big away ends.

2023-24 Reading away followings (allocation in brackets; midweek matches in italics)
  1. Millwall (LC) - 730 (996)
  2. Port Vale - 1,132 (1,230)
  3. Exeter - 1,261 (1,337)
  4. Cambridge - 1,151 (1,427)
  5. Exeter (LT) - 281 (360)
  6. Blackpool - 644 (1,526)
  7. Northampton - 1,285 (1,473)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,253 (1,200)
  9. Charlton - TBC (2,010)


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Re: Away followings

by Green » 09 Oct 2023 21:06

Medium sized fish in a small pond

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stealthpapes
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Re: Away followings

by stealthpapes » 11 Oct 2023 15:03

Basically very good attendances every league game except

Blackpool - 644 (1,526)

I still got shouted at to sit down despite being in Row M or something.

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Re: Away followings

by LUX » 13 Oct 2023 16:26

yeah, but you are a known larrikin

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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 22 Oct 2023 15:10

Updating for Charlton attendance and Shrewsbury allocation.

2023-24 League One averages followings (last season's average in brackets)
  1. Derby - 2,201 (2,381)
  2. Bolton - 1,892 (1,594)
  3. Portsmouth - 1,562 (1,555)
  4. Wigan - 1,510 (1,123)
  5. Reading - 1,321 (894)
  6. Charlton - 1,205 (955)
  7. Carlisle - 1,148 (769)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,012 (791)
  9. Bristol Rovers - 1,050 (975)
  10. Oxford - 993 (922)
  11. Port Vale - 891 (1,025)
  12. Blackpool - 877 (1,066)
  13. Peterborough - 869 (918)
  14. Barnsley - 783 (1,205)
  15. Lincoln - 697 (775)
  16. Stevenage - 679 (332)
  17. Northampton - 679 (674)
  18. Cambridge - 669 (732)
  19. Exeter - 661 (739)
  20. Wycombe - 486 (575)
  21. Shrewsbury - 394 (618)
  22. Cheltenham - 336 (334)
  23. Burton - 316 (319)
  24. Fleetwood - 247 (196)
2023-24 Reading away followings (allocation in brackets; midweek matches in italics)
  1. Millwall (LC) - 730 (996)
  2. Port Vale - 1,132 (1,230)
  3. Exeter - 1,261 (1,337)
  4. Cambridge - 1,151 (1,427)
  5. Exeter (LT) - 281 (360)
  6. Blackpool - 644 (1,526)
  7. Northampton - 1,285 (1,473)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,253 (1,200)
  9. Charlton - 2,518 (2,010 initial)
  10. Shrewsbury - TBC (1,656)


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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 15 Nov 2023 17:12

Update, plus average following excluding outliers.

2023-24 League One averages followings (last season's average in brackets)
  1. Derby - 2,099 (2,381)
  2. Portsmouth - 1,739 (1,555)
  3. Bolton - 1,645 (1,594)
  4. Wigan - 1,445 (1,123)
  5. Blackpool - 1,307 (1,066)
  6. Reading - 1,305 (894)
  7. Bristol Rovers - 1,193 (975)
  8. Charlton - 1,140 (955)
  9. Carlisle - 1,087 (769)
  10. Barnsley - 1,006 (1,205)
  11. Leyton Orient - 978 (791)
  12. Oxford - 914 (922)
  13. Port Vale - 859 (1,025)
  14. Cambridge - 751 (732)
  15. Northampton - 751 (674)
  16. Peterborough - 737 (918)
  17. Lincoln - 634 (775)
  18. Stevenage - 619 (332)
  19. Wycombe - 606 (575)
  20. Exeter - 594 (739)
  21. Shrewsbury - 396 (618)
  22. Burton - 302 (319)
  23. Cheltenham - 292 (334)
  24. Fleetwood - 227 (196)
2023-24 League One averages followings adjusting for outliers (standard deviation / adjusted range in brackets)
  1. Derby - 1,643 (829 / 1,270-2,928)
  2. Bolton - 1,596 (573 / 1,072-2,218)
  3. Portsmouth - 1,425 (791 / 807-2,530)
  4. Reading - 1,213 (497 / 807-1,802)
  5. Wigan - 1,134 (1,074 / 371-2,519)
  6. Bristol Rovers - 929 (708 / 485-1,900)
  7. Blackpool - 898 (1,107 / 200-2,414)
  8. Oxford - 891 (397 / 518-1,311)
  9. Charlton - 879 (637 / 503-1,777)
  10. Barnsley - 783 (677 / 329-1,683)
  11. Northampton - 718 (262 / 489-1,013)
  12. Leyton Orient - 710 (799 / 179-1,777)
  13. Exeter - 675 (235 / 359-829)
  14. Carlisle - 613 (1,261 / 0-2,348)
  15. Port Vale - 590 (516 / 343-1,375)
  16. Stevenage - 581 (326 / 293-946)
  17. Peterborough - 563 (453 / 284-1,189)
  18. Lincoln - 545 (442 / 191-1,076)
  19. Wycombe - 534 (403 / 203-1,009)
  20. Cambridge - 526 (465 / 286-1,216)
  21. Shrewsbury - 390 (151 / 245-548)
  22. Burton - 238 (193 / 109-495)
  23. Fleetwood - 237 (108 / 118-335)
  24. Cheltenham - 207 (196 / 97-488)
2023-24 Reading away followings (allocation in brackets; midweek matches in italics)
  1. Millwall (LC) - 730 (996)
  2. Port Vale - 1,132 (1,230)
  3. Exeter - 1,261 (1,337)
  4. Cambridge - 1,151 (1,427)
  5. Exeter (LT) - 281 (360)
  6. Blackpool - 644 (1,526)
  7. Northampton - 1,285 (1,473)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,253 (1,200)
  9. Charlton - 2,518 (2,010 initial)
  10. Shrewsbury - 1,193 (1,656)
  11. Wycombe - SOLD OUT (1,848)
  12. Eastleigh (FA) - TBC (800)

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Re: Away followings

by Royal_jimmy » 16 Nov 2023 00:15

stealthpapes Basically very good attendances every league game except

Blackpool - 644 (1,526)

I still got shouted at to sit down despite being in Row M or something.


644 isn't bad considering we have played Blackpool a lot recently and it's a mission to get there.

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Re: Away followings

by Royal_jimmy » 16 Nov 2023 00:21

Clyde1998 Update, plus average following excluding outliers.

2023-24 League One averages followings (last season's average in brackets)
  1. Derby - 2,099 (2,381)
  2. Portsmouth - 1,739 (1,555)
  3. Bolton - 1,645 (1,594)
  4. Wigan - 1,445 (1,123)
  5. Blackpool - 1,307 (1,066)
  6. Reading - 1,305 (894)
  7. Bristol Rovers - 1,193 (975)
  8. Charlton - 1,140 (955)
  9. Carlisle - 1,087 (769)
  10. Barnsley - 1,006 (1,205)
  11. Leyton Orient - 978 (791)
  12. Oxford - 914 (922)
  13. Port Vale - 859 (1,025)
  14. Cambridge - 751 (732)
  15. Northampton - 751 (674)
  16. Peterborough - 737 (918)
  17. Lincoln - 634 (775)
  18. Stevenage - 619 (332)
  19. Wycombe - 606 (575)
  20. Exeter - 594 (739)
  21. Shrewsbury - 396 (618)
  22. Burton - 302 (319)
  23. Cheltenham - 292 (334)
  24. Fleetwood - 227 (196)
2023-24 League One averages followings adjusting for outliers (standard deviation / adjusted range in brackets)
  1. Derby - 1,643 (829 / 1,270-2,928)
  2. Bolton - 1,596 (573 / 1,072-2,218)
  3. Portsmouth - 1,425 (791 / 807-2,530)
  4. Reading - 1,213 (497 / 807-1,802)
  5. Wigan - 1,134 (1,074 / 371-2,519)
  6. Bristol Rovers - 929 (708 / 485-1,900)
  7. Blackpool - 898 (1,107 / 200-2,414)
  8. Oxford - 891 (397 / 518-1,311)
  9. Charlton - 879 (637 / 503-1,777)
  10. Barnsley - 783 (677 / 329-1,683)
  11. Northampton - 718 (262 / 489-1,013)
  12. Leyton Orient - 710 (799 / 179-1,777)
  13. Exeter - 675 (235 / 359-829)
  14. Carlisle - 613 (1,261 / 0-2,348)
  15. Port Vale - 590 (516 / 343-1,375)
  16. Stevenage - 581 (326 / 293-946)
  17. Peterborough - 563 (453 / 284-1,189)
  18. Lincoln - 545 (442 / 191-1,076)
  19. Wycombe - 534 (403 / 203-1,009)
  20. Cambridge - 526 (465 / 286-1,216)
  21. Shrewsbury - 390 (151 / 245-548)
  22. Burton - 238 (193 / 109-495)
  23. Fleetwood - 237 (108 / 118-335)
  24. Cheltenham - 207 (196 / 97-488)
2023-24 Reading away followings (allocation in brackets; midweek matches in italics)
  1. Millwall (LC) - 730 (996)
  2. Port Vale - 1,132 (1,230)
  3. Exeter - 1,261 (1,337)
  4. Cambridge - 1,151 (1,427)
  5. Exeter (LT) - 281 (360)
  6. Blackpool - 644 (1,526)
  7. Northampton - 1,285 (1,473)
  8. Leyton Orient - 1,253 (1,200)
  9. Charlton - 2,518 (2,010 initial)
  10. Shrewsbury - 1,193 (1,656)
  11. Wycombe - SOLD OUT (1,848)
  12. Eastleigh (FA) - TBC (800)


Taken 1k+ to every league away game except Blackpool. Our average away attendance must be 1300 in the league which is a good effort. We usually averaged 700-800 in the championship. It's nice to be one of the best away supports in league one.

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Re: Away followings

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Nov 2023 08:23

What's big away support look like in L2? Presumably capacity is much more limited there.

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Re: Away followings

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 16 Nov 2023 08:36

It's nice to see us consistently averaging 4 figures away from home this season in all of our league away games anyway and I hope it can continue.

L2 followings will largely be dominated with Bradford, Wrexham, Notts County and Stockport I reckon. I think Grimsby and Mansfield are known to take a decent following as well, unsure on any of the others. I'd expect Swindon to obviously take a big following for the short journey.

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Re: Away followings

by Clyde1998 » 16 Nov 2023 13:18

Snowflake Royal What's big away support look like in L2? Presumably capacity is much more limited there.

It doesn't appear to be significantly different at the top end to L1. From what I can see, Wrexham have the highest away following at 1,668 followed by Mansfield (1,399); Notts Co (1,399); Grimsby (1,198); Stockport (1,109) and Bradford (1,040). Excluding outliers, only Wrexham, Mansfield and Notts Co have been taking over 1,000 to games consistently this season.

Most grounds seem to have an away allocation of at least 1,000 - it appears only Harrogate and Newport have very low allocations (both around 400-500) from the away followings at those grounds this season.

Of the current sides in League Two, we'd be able to take large followings to some grounds. Swindon has a maximum away allocation of 3,000; Milton Keynes is usually around 3,000 max, but ultimately seems almost limitless (Coventry took over 8,000 there one year); Mansfield took nearly 4,000 to Notts County.

Of the other localish grounds, the highest away followings this season has been: Colchester (900); Crawley (1,350); Forest Green (1,200); Gillingham (800); Sutton (1,300); Wimbledon (1,200). Some may have higher allocations, but haven't played anyone who'd fill it yet.

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Re: Away followings

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Nov 2023 17:24

Clyde, you're fantastic.

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