What do people expect from a football team and manager

[Stranded]

It does feel that the biggest driver is the division we’re in, then perceived standing within the league then actual standing within the league.

It’s mildly interesting that there’s a bump on actual promotion campaigns vs near misses (00-01 vs 01-02 where the gap is 1 position) but also 10-11 vs 11-12 vs 16-17.

Relegation drops fans but so does hanging around a division.

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children who possible even being having children themselves who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

Yes the population has boomed but mostly with people who work in Reading or London but have no real connection to the town and probably support other clubs already from either their home town or whoever their dad/grandad supported. Some of those may well have gone to games when the side was doing well because their "first team" is too far away to go to regularly and they can get a decent football fix but now, they aren't too fussed with watching 3rd Tier football. Their kids, who may well have been born in Reading may have a stronger connection and now be attending without Mum or Dad.

Meanwhile, a not insignificant number of people from Reading - including people like myself - who went regularly or were STs in the late 90s/00s have moved away and now either don't go at all or get to a handful of games a year. As a result, the hardcore has stayed around 10k(ish) because the numbers of new dedicated fans has pretty much kept up with the numbers of those who can no longer attend.

[Stranded]

i think tickets sold will also have a bearing.

Serious Question: do League One managers have explicit KPIs linked to Tickets Sold?

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if that was the case, given how few levers a Manager has to pull in terms of pricing, promotional and marketing spend, etc...

Can you imagine the meeting:

RC: we need an extra 2k on the gate on Saturday
LR: OK, cancel the fireworks, fire Kingsley and give me the money for a kids for a quid discount scheme...
RC: over my dead body...
LR: then my hands are tied...

Managers won't have that as a KPI no. But the owners want to make money from this project. They are looking at the club as business not as a fan. If the shit being served up on the pitch is driving fans away then its going to be a consideration for them.

It will but only if the main KPIs they track are not being met. I would expect that given where we were when LR came in, he is probably on track to meet his goals at the moment.

[Hound]

This is the first year for 10 years or so that I haven’t been sitting in the ED stand. Has it always looked so empty? Does feel something isn’t working there with the family stand - it’s not ticket prices because they are very cheap. Are the club interacting well enough with local kids and schools - I’d probably say not from what I’ve seen - there’s no real presence of RFC that I can see in the local grassroots which I’m quite involved in, or schools that I’ve heard of.

People got bored of 1871 as well. Partly I reckon because of the idiotic chants that come out of it nowadays. Not the positive experience it started out as

[Brogue]

This is the first year for 10 years or so that I haven’t been sitting in the ED stand. Has it always looked so empty? Does feel something isn’t working there with the family stand - it’s not ticket prices because they are very cheap. Are the club interacting well enough with local kids and schools - I’d probably say not from what I’ve seen - there’s no real presence of RFC that I can see in the local grassroots which I’m quite involved in, or schools that I’ve heard of.

People got bored of 1871 as well. Partly I reckon because of the idiotic chants that come out of it nowadays. Not the positive experience it started out as

It's an area the club can improve on massively. You wouldn't know there was even a football club in the town, walking through the town centre. We used to have buses covered in the clubs colours all sorts of advertising hanging off lamposts and stuff. Its good there is a pop up shop in heelas now, but i went over Christmas and it was shit. It's good that a few players turned up to do a free signing of shirts and stuff during half term there too. Saw a wonderful video of a small child jumping up and down with excitement that he was about to meet Charlie savage and get something signed. its that sort of stuff we need to see more of. It does seems there is more of this happening now under couhig tbf which is good to see. Reading FC used to be at the heart of the community, that side of thing lost its way over the last 10 years they need to continue to bring this back. Part of the problem though is there seems to be a disconnect with the fans and the players the fans and the manager. We are seeing more and more talk of it. Last years team the manager and the fans had a real affinity. Mbengue coming over to the fans at the end of the game and doing his celebration. This year its JP and it just seems so forced. There's something missing, and until that comes back i cant see the fans coming back in a hurry.

[Brogue]

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children who possible even being having children themselves who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

Yes the population has boomed but mostly with people who work in Reading or London but have no real connection to the town and probably support other clubs already from either their home town or whoever their dad/grandad supported. Some of those may well have gone to games when the side was doing well because their "first team" is too far away to go to regularly and they can get a decent football fix but now, they aren't too fussed with watching 3rd Tier football. Their kids, who may well have been born in Reading may have a stronger connection and now be attending without Mum or Dad.

Meanwhile, a not insignificant number of people from Reading - including people like myself - who went regularly or were STs in the late 90s/00s have moved away and now either don't go at all or get to a handful of games a year. As a result, the hardcore has stayed around 10k(ish) because the numbers of new dedicated fans has pretty much kept up with the numbers of those who can no longer attend.

agree with everything you've said but to not have increased your core fan base in the last 30 years, 30 years of unparalleled success, is poor. End of.

[Hound]

This is the first year for 10 years or so that I haven’t been sitting in the ED stand. Has it always looked so empty? Does feel something isn’t working there with the family stand - it’s not ticket prices because they are very cheap. Are the club interacting well enough with local kids and schools - I’d probably say not from what I’ve seen - there’s no real presence of RFC that I can see in the local grassroots which I’m quite involved in, or schools that I’ve heard of.

People got bored of 1871 as well. Partly I reckon because of the idiotic chants that come out of it nowadays. Not the positive experience it started out as

It's an area the club can improve on massively. You wouldn't know there was even a football club in the town, walking through the town centre. We used to have buses covered in the clubs colours all sorts of advertising hanging off lamposts and stuff. Its good there is a pop up shop in heelas now, but i went over Christmas and it was shit. It's good that a few players turned up to do a free signing of shirts and stuff during half term there too. Saw a wonderful video of a small child jumping up and down with excitement that he was about to meet Charlie savage and get something signed. its that sort of stuff we need to see more of. It does seems there is more of this happening now under couhig tbf which is good to see. Reading FC used to be at the heart of the community, that side of thing lost its way over the last 10 years they need to continue to bring this back. Part of the problem though is there seems to be a disconnect with the fans and the players the fans and the manager. We are seeing more and more talk of it. Last years team the manager and the fans had a real affinity. Mbengue coming over to the fans at the end of the game and doing his celebration. This year its JP and it just seems so forced. There's something missing, and until that comes back i cant see the fans coming back in a hurry.

Agree with a lot of that. I mean from
What I’ve seen from Bearwood open day etc the players are all good lads who seem happy to give up their time etc. it’s a matter of coordination and getting them out their - why not pay a visit to a local grassroots ground one Saturday when they’re injured etc - give some team talks to some u10 or similar - imagine how amazing that would be for them…

We’ve too many new players - someone like Wareham who had a big connection last year let go. Of the new ones in, only Marriott really seems to have connected and that’s very largely because he’s been successful. No one gives a stuff about Lane, Doyle, Burns, Fraser etc really do they? If they all left tomorrow no one would barely remember their names in 10 years time. On the other hand we’ll all remember Mbengue, Bindon, Smith and Knibbs I expect

It’ll take a while to rebuild. Shouldn’t have bought so many players in, should have used academy lads more in my opinion. Which has pretty much been that since day 1 this year

[stealthpapes]

It does feel that the biggest driver is the division we’re in, then perceived standing within the league then actual standing within the league.

It’s mildly interesting that there’s a bump on actual promotion campaigns vs near misses (00-01 vs 01-02 where the gap is 1 position) but also 10-11 vs 11-12 vs 16-17.

Relegation drops fans but so does hanging around a division.

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children, and possibly those kids are even having children themselves, who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

I’d look at the data and say that decade of stagnation post-2013 did the most damage, there’s a bit where crowds drop year on year regardless of performance.

[Greatwesternline]

Most fans who are staying away will be blissfully unaware of how well the team is/isn't playing and probably only mildly aware of the league position - why? because they are floating fans - our hardcore is probably around what we are seeing now. The key difference is people are less likely to spend any spare money on L1 football - put simply, a more casual Reading fan is going to be less enticed to get off the sofa to go and watch us play say Burton than West Brom.

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children, and possibly those kids are even having children themselves, who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

I’d look at the data and say that decade of stagnation post-2013 did the most damage, there’s a bit where crowds drop year on year regardless of performance.

I think the marketing of the premier league has persuaded more people to support premier league teams at the expense of supporting your local team in that time period. Reading is competing with Chelsea Arsenal Spurs West Ham for supporters, and the media narrative just pushes this option harder. The national press devote less and less coverage to lower than PL football these days.

[Sutekh]

Not disagreeing with you, i think you’re right, that the numbers we are getting through the gate are probably our hardcore number. What i do find surprising is that number is so low. We are at 1998 levels of support. in the last 28 years we achieved premier league football for three years an FA cup semi final at Wembley and multiple play off campaigns in the second tier of football. That's a whole generation of stable sustained success for a club that's historically been a 3rd tier team. In that time the town its self has grown immeasurably the population has boomed. The recent years of success attracted more fans, and they will have had children, and possibly those kids are even having children themselves, who will go to the games and become lifelong Reading FC fans. I just find it really odd that basically our core fan base hasn't increased in 30 years despite a generation or 2 of unpresented success when compared to our history.

I’d look at the data and say that decade of stagnation post-2013 did the most damage, there’s a bit where crowds drop year on year regardless of performance.

I think the marketing of the premier league has persuaded more people to support premier league teams at the expense of supporting your local team in that time period. Reading is competing with Chelsea Arsenal Spurs West Ham for supporters, and the media narrative just pushes this option harder. The national press devote less and less coverage to lower than PL football these days.

But then the media pretty much make out that football only started in 1992

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Most kids will support a big premier league team, especially with us being so close to London.

When we have a good season, playoffs / premier league of course our attendances increase.

Unless you’re a ‘real’ fan, given we’ve been such a shambles for so many years now it’s not a surprise to see only the hard core left now. Add in some life long fans who have moved away for various reasons. Plus cost of living and many feeling more squeezed

I can’t imagine many teams our size have grown their core base in the last 10/15 years especially if they have been so uninspiring as we have been

[stealthpapes]

Somewhat related to the attendances. 10 clubs with biggest increases in average attendance since 2015-16.
I think its just a static comparison.

In reverse order

10 Ipswich, +9,183
9 Fulham, +9,566
8 Birmingham, +9.780
7 Forest, +10,767
6 Everton, +13,894
5 Leeds, +14,268
4 Liverpool, +16,483
3 Coventry, +17,484
2 Tottenham, +25,136
1 West Ham, +27,543

Have we tried (a) getting promoted or (b) building a new stadium?

[Hound]

Just brought in too many signings and moved others on who we had connection with

I think this is fair in the main, but worth considering how much of the summer was in our hands. We were down to seven pros at one point, right?

We had to bring in signings, there’s a few players I think we should have kept but not much happening if they want to leave.

Add in the manager change which almost ensures a busy winter transfer window.

Yeah, can we get some details on who these players we had a connection with who could have been kept rather than moved on please?

Because I expect it’s empty criticism based on players there was zero chance of keeping and most people were sanguine about at the time.

Tbh it wasn’t really meant solely as a criticism with players leaving - more why I think the connection isn’t quite there . As mentioned, it wasn’t circumstance in the summer. I think we could and should have kept Craig and definitely Wareham, but Mbengue, Bindon and Knibbs left a huge hole which we couldn’t do a lot about

But then in more recent times 2 Kelvins, Garcia should have played more and possibly even the likes of Osho and Ahmed in my opinion

But then we’ve also seen more players sign and disappear - MoM, Burns, Jacob, Ritchie - prob some more - who were once first teamers and now seemingly nowhere or gone.

Can’t build any real connection when it’s virtually a different team to even what it was in September

[Hound]

Actually I think I basically covered most of that in the post a few posts before that

[SouthDownsRoyal]

Promotion would be nice

[Whore Jackie]

Somewhat related to the attendances. 10 clubs with biggest increases in average attendance since 2015-16.
I think its just a static comparison.

In reverse order

10 Ipswich, +9,183
9 Fulham, +9,566
8 Birmingham, +9.780
7 Forest, +10,767
6 Everton, +13,894
5 Leeds, +14,268
4 Liverpool, +16,483
3 Coventry, +17,484
2 Tottenham, +25,136
1 West Ham, +27,543

Have we tried (a) getting promoted or (b) building a new stadium?

That Coventry figure is really interesting. Fan-dissolution with the ownership, playing away from their spiritual city and 'forever home'. New owners, back at the Ricoh, plans for a new stadium at Warwick Uni seemingly scrapped and look at the results. Do think Couhig thought he'd see something similar here, with relatively lesser hassle. TBF to Coventry, they're generally got things right on the pitch, first with Robins and now with Lampard. That's always going to help.

[6ft Kerplunk]

Somewhat related to the attendances. 10 clubs with biggest increases in average attendance since 2015-16.
I think its just a static comparison.

In reverse order

10 Ipswich, +9,183
9 Fulham, +9,566
8 Birmingham, +9.780
7 Forest, +10,767
6 Everton, +13,894
5 Leeds, +14,268
4 Liverpool, +16,483
3 Coventry, +17,484
2 Tottenham, +25,136
1 West Ham, +27,543

Have we tried (a) getting promoted or (b) building a new stadium?

Or given the placings (c) get given a new ground you could never afford yourself

[Clyde1998]

This is the first year for 10 years or so that I haven’t been sitting in the ED stand. Has it always looked so empty? Does feel something isn’t working there with the family stand - it’s not ticket prices because they are very cheap. Are the club interacting well enough with local kids and schools - I’d probably say not from what I’ve seen - there’s no real presence of RFC that I can see in the local grassroots which I’m quite involved in, or schools that I’ve heard of.

People got bored of 1871 as well. Partly I reckon because of the idiotic chants that come out of it nowadays. Not the positive experience it started out as

It's an area the club can improve on massively. You wouldn't know there was even a football club in the town, walking through the town centre. We used to have buses covered in the clubs colours all sorts of advertising hanging off lamposts and stuff. Its good there is a pop up shop in heelas now, but i went over Christmas and it was shit. It's good that a few players turned up to do a free signing of shirts and stuff during half term there too. Saw a wonderful video of a small child jumping up and down with excitement that he was about to meet Charlie savage and get something signed. its that sort of stuff we need to see more of. It does seems there is more of this happening now under couhig tbf which is good to see. Reading FC used to be at the heart of the community, that side of thing lost its way over the last 10 years they need to continue to bring this back. Part of the problem though is there seems to be a disconnect with the fans and the players the fans and the manager. We are seeing more and more talk of it. Last years team the manager and the fans had a real affinity. Mbengue coming over to the fans at the end of the game and doing his celebration. This year its JP and it just seems so forced. There's something missing, and until that comes back i cant see the fans coming back in a hurry.

This. As soon as you leave the stadium site (and often within it), there's absolutely nothing to tell the town there's a football club here. That reflects in the levels of support, especially when talking about kids. We need to actively recruit kids to stop them from falling for the bigger clubs, especially those from London, not passively accept we can't get them to come regularly.

We naturally won a lot of kids over when we were in the Premier League or top end of the Championship, as we were successful. When the club isn't successful, there's no reason for those kids to choose us over Arsenal or Chelsea, especially with how easy it is to follow those teams without going to games.

We need to make the club be the centre of the community if we want to grow, not simply rely on marketing gimmicks. They may get people to turn up for single matches, but don't to much to keep them here.

I know there's a limit to how often the club can do it, due to league rules, but could they not give away tickets to schools/youth groups? Get people in and hope they enjoy going enough that they want to come back, which would help the club's revenue in the long term (would also help with secondary revenue).

Even giving away free merchandise to those groups would be good, even if it's the older stuff. We don't even have the kids penalty shootout at half-time now. This should be something every club is able to do. None of Kingsley; Queensley; and Princeley are ever at the games either, unless it's a big one.

It's like the club (in general) simply doesn't care about the community.

Are prices too high too? Could be lower ticket prices for adults to make it more attractive for them to come with their kids. I know an adult with one (pre-teen) child is £24 in the family section for a single match, but not everyone wants to sit there. This is especially the case if the parent is pre-existing season ticket holder who sits elsewhere in the stadium.

It's £32 in the rest of the North Stand; £34 in the East Stand and Lower West; £36 in the Upper West. Even £24 is not the cheapest day out, especially if you start factoring in things like food and drink (a Diet Coke and a Hot Dog is £8 each, unless I've missed some sort of deal).

That's assuming every 'new' supporter is someone taking their child along. There are plenty of people who may be tempted back with a more affordable day out. Having a fuller stadium could also help with atmosphere and would look a lot better in the club's marketing.

Having every midweek match as a reduced price match could help get away from the awful attendances we see there. I don't think there's anything to prevent the club from doing this (as long as they offer the same deal to away fans). This would obviously have to be balanced with season ticket prices, but saying it's £10 for adults in midweek may encourage people to hang around after finishing work at Green Park.

Green Park is another area where the club needs to look for potentially growing its base, both in terms of sponsorship and potential attendees.

[fred sharpes nose]

Its about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYLXNmNtjJ8

[stealthpapes]

It's like the club (in general) simply doesn't care about the community.

Yes.

How much of this was a priority when we were making half the backroom staff redundant, failing to pay tax and other bills, etc.

This is the sort of ‘non-essential’ stuff that has been neglected and will take time to build back. Patience, and the right sort of fan pressure, are needed.

[Brogue]

Rob followed me last night on twitter and we’ve been chatting over PM. We are working on a face to face where I can put some of this stuff to him. Less Louisiana days and more grass roots days…