The second half of that first sentence is correct. The first is very much up for debate.

Who in our side would any other team in the division genuinely want? No one came in for any of them in the summer or the Jan window
a couple of teams may take a few of our young players off our hands for their potential. And maybe T Ince but he was hardly in demand at Stoke
This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

Who in our side would any other team in the division genuinely want? No one came in for any of them in the summer or the Jan window
a couple of teams may take a few of our young players off our hands for their potential. And maybe T Ince but he was hardly in demand at Stoke
This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

This.

This is just delusional. On what basis do you rate them as 'not a bad side'? Which players in our squad have proven themselves as decent quality championship players elsewhere? If they're so good then why weren't we able to sell any of them despite that being a vital goal in our business plan?
We bet the farm on selling Puscas and didn't even try with anyone else. Bowen actively said there was no point trying to sell because it wouldn't help.
They're not great, but they're better than bottom 5. With or without points deduction. We've been hamstrung by a points deduction and a useless negative manager constantly telling the players they're shit and getting them to play abysmal hoofball in a shit shapes and combinations that don't work.

Who in our side would any other team in the division genuinely want? No one came in for any of them in the summer or the Jan window
a couple of teams may take a few of our young players off our hands for their potential. And maybe T Ince but he was hardly in demand at Stoke
This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

You know you're a basket case when Peter Ridsdale runs a club better than you.

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.
Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.
The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.
Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

It’s easiest to just blame one man and think that we’d be all fine it ince wasn’t in charge. It’s just not the case; the team is poor, loads of injuries, no confidence. Agree he has certainly contributed significantly to our dreadful run this calendar year though and worth Bowen just having a go because we will go down otherwise

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.
Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

You know you're a basket case when Peter Ridsdale runs a club better than you.
Yep cracking point.

Agree with that - although I don't really want Bowen stepping in personally speaking. Just leave him to do his job, if we were going to do it give it to Gilkes or Hunt maybe or whoever, not Bowen. He's not exactly got a fantastic record of firefighting himself.
Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october

I’m sure Noel Hunt would do a better job but it would probably be unfair to put him in that position and give him what would probably be a negative start to his managerial career.
So unless we can afford to get someone in who has some experience in these situations (reasonable to assume we can’t) I suggest we get shot of Ince and make Dann and Carroll joint player managers.
Not suggesting that would be ideal of course but I think it would be better than the total bollocks this team produces under Ince and Rae.

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october
Gomes made it pretty clear where we were heading under him.

Just got back to Chesterfield ready for work tomorrow. Honestly, that was oxf*rd dreadful and atm I don’t want to go to another game. Azeez and Ehib did okay and Lumley made some good saves. I can’t fault the players effort but we look so disjointed.
I am blaming Ince but the players are also responsible to a degree. We look as good as relegated and personally I’d like to see us play 2-0 football for the last 5 games and attack teams. I’ll probably be up for the Burnley game on Saturday but we might get hammered if they aren’t too hungover.

If Ince does go (which I can't see happening btw), we need someone who can simply get the best out of the players we've got. That's the strength of Neil Warnock - basically all the players he's had under him would run into machine gun fire for him if he told them to. For five matches (we can worry about a manager for next season at another point) it doesn't matter how the team plays, just as long as we get points.
I'd imagine Mark Bowen would be the caretaker manager should Ince go. He did take a side 22nd in the league (in mid-October) to a 14th place finish and had an immediate impact last time (getting ten points from his first four matches). It was basically his team which started the following season strongly, even if he got replaced a week before the season started, too.

Why is it not fair to put Hunt in that position, but perfectly fair to put Dann and/or Carroll in that position?

Why is it not fair to put Hunt in that position, but perfectly fair to put Dann and/or Carroll in that position?

Yeah, fair question.
Because having done his badges (I believe) Hunt will probably be a 1st team manager in the relatively near future, whereas Carroll and Dann have a way to go and management wouldn’t really be on their radar yet awhile so any “failure” on a quick fix interim appointment wouldn’t really stick when assessed for future managerial roles.
That was my thinking anyway!

This doesn't stack up when you look at the likes of Luton, Preston and Millwall performing very well. On face value our squad is no better or worse than any of those three clubs. Difference is they are well run and well managed football clubs and we are a basket case behind the scenes and managed by Paul Ince who got the job because he was cheap and friendly with the ownership circle.

This.

Luton, Millwall and Preston have spent years sensibly and coherently building competitive squads. They have also been able to pick up excellent loan players who i suspect didn’t come for free. The lads at PNE for instance have turned their season around
It’s blinkered to suggest they aren’t better on paper.
We’ve literally had to pick up the leftovers.
Ince is a crap manager of course, and has cost us points, but the side is also pretty dreadful

Should we read too much into Pince supposedly not travelling back on the team coach?

Is it ironic that we play Luton next week?

Watch this space.

Rumours eh?

Apart from taking us to 14th from a relegation fight.

No one's in a relegation fight at the start of october

They are if Gomes, Paunovic or Clement or Ince is their manager.

Nathan Jones has been gone too long is all I’ll say.

It's not that we don't have a plan or aren't organised though. We aren't a secret, we know exactly what we will get each week, so do the opposition and that's working against us. It does come down to a lack of quality.
Players like Swift, Joao, Meite etc have been digging us out each season, Meite and Joao are a shadow of themselves (although the latter did ok today) which comes down to how we play. But it's those brilliant moments from the odd high quality players we've had that have pulled us out of it in the end.
The teams with the lowest amount of quality go down, usually through a combination of factors. Inept management and low quality players usually being two of the main reasons why.
Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.
This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.
But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.
Look at our results you lunatic.

It could be a Supreme appointment

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.
I swear you just argue against indisputable facts on here just so you get direct interaction with other humans. You're full of shit.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.
This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.
But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.
Look at our results you lunatic.

Dunno about "lunatic" but yeah.
I vowed 6 weeks ago not to watch us again this season as it was just bloody frustrating and pointless, and has been for almost the entirety of the dozen or more games I had watched.
Yesterday my son decided to red button the game so I thought what the hell, might as well join him.
No surprise, still terrible to watch, almost embarrassing how a team flirting with play-offs can be made to look so good in possession, we never got near to them, just chasing shadows. 11 people out on the pitch in the hoops farting about, mostly scared to choose any option other than the easiest pass, zero vision, incapable of showing for each other, poor first touch, desperate hoofs out of defence to no-one.
And then for 10 minutes (if that) we got on the front foot, showed a bit of intent and scored a goal. Just a few minutes, in a must-win game, that was it.
I assume it is more Rae than Ince who sets up the training sessions but when everyone is getting worse you have to conclude that those training sessions, and the thinking behind them, must be pretty damn useless.
"You could see what we were trying to do". I'd love to know what that was, because it sure as hell wasn't designed to win that must-win football match.

Hoof it at Carroll is not a plan, and there isn't an ounce of organisation on the pitch.

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks
It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors
Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

“That’s ultimately what will cost Ince his job” sounds a bit far fetched! It’s almost like some people believe the tripe that Ince talks
It’s simple, if you consistently set up with no aggression, no intent and no clue of how to retain possession, you’re going to struggle. These players are not robots, or top class defenders so it’s nigh impossible to ask them to persistently keep shape and defend without errors
Given where we are, it’s difficult to absolve the players of complete blame. But in this instance, I’m not sure. Ince has left these players out to dry, the likes of Rahman, Yiadom, Joao and Carroll and the fact he dismisses any form of responsibility whilst blaming anyone and everyone else is why he’ll go down as one of the worst and dislikeable managers we’ve ever had

Never heard him say he got it wrong. Everyone else is at fault.

Tbf to Ince, obvs not sure on tbe complete ins and outs, but off the pitch he does seem to have been fairly instrumental in at least highlighting the mess off the pitch which seems to be getting better
I don’t especially dislike him tbh. You bring someone in who has not an especially out good record and out of the game for 8 years and it’s almost miraculous that we aren’t already down
He was a very odd choice of manager who did contribute to keeping us up and maybe sorting things out off the pitch. That’s not to say now he’s not way out of his depth and has failed in a number of aspects - esp sorting out the defence which is abysmal. That second goal yesterday was an absolute joke

But that's obviously not the plan is it, just lazy to suggest it is. Playing percentages, looking for the second balls, working off Carroll and Joao, keeping it tight defensively, staying narrow etc.
There wasn't a lack of organisation defensively yesterday, players knew their positions and you could see what we were trying to do. We didn't do it which is the issue and haven't been for a while, that's ultimately what will cost Ince his job.

I know you lot love to argue the toss about everything on here but this is just ridiculous.
This team has no attacking plan other than diagonals to Carroll and the midfield aimlessly mill around welcoming runners straight through them.
But you’re saying we can’t see the master plan - the genius of Ince. Well you’re right because he doesn’t have one. That’s why we’re so shit.
Look at our results you lunatic.

I'm not saying it's good, or that it's working, but it was pretty obvious what we were doing yesterday and it was pretty obvious why it's not working as well. The point was that there wasn't a plan, that's not true, there is, it's just not working through a combination of poor management and low quality players.

This.

Luton, Millwall and Preston have spent years sensibly and coherently building competitive squads. They have also been able to pick up excellent loan players who i suspect didn’t come for free. The lads at PNE for instance have turned their season around
It’s blinkered to suggest they aren’t better on paper.
We’ve literally had to pick up the leftovers.
Ince is a crap manager of course, and has cost us points, but the side is also pretty dreadful

Isn't his main family home in Cheshire?

This
Aside from the odd team here and there (Burnley, for example), the Championship is much of a muchness. Unfortunately, when it comes to the team, our manager has an inferiority complex. You constantly dismiss your players and you end up with shirkers and players taking no responsibility
Unlike other managers (Warnock, as a case of point), it’s hard to imagine Ince instils any passion into this side. It’s no surprise that in every job he’s had, his teams have fallen and fallen and fallen
Last job, top of the league in October with Blackpool before relegation (or something close to that anyway). Sound familiar?

Might be one of the most hilarious things a Reading manager has ever said, perhaps next to Paunovic's "apart from the four goals, I thought we played well"