Let's not wet our beds too much guys.
I've since calmed down and can see it for what it was - a shit performance where 3-2 flattered us, but we forget we had to play a right back as CB, two of the worst performing defenders in recent history at as the other CBs, a n00b kid at RB and for some reason a winger at LB.
Things haven't suddenly changed just because we're performing way over expectations. The fact is still that we have a medical/science team not fit for the Champ so silly injuries, we have been forced into freebies and loanees and the upshot is we're trying to put a defence together out of nothing.
Let Hutch come back, Sarr get fit etc and we'll start winning again. Remember we have no right to be in the top half of the table. Keep it real.

We didn’t.
We could have played the right back at right back, our CBs (who I think you’re being incredibly harsh about) at CB, and either of our 2 left backs, at left back.

I have been critical of Holmes but he's had a good season. I actually believe that McIntyre alongside Holmes is a bad pairing and lacks experience.
Anyone got any stats on how goals conceded when both have started? We look far tighter at the back when only one of the pair plays.

Thought yesterday was very much like last season
I do have some sympathy with Ince’s comments as Swansea never really looked like breaking us down as such - Lumley made one very good save, but don’t think he did a lot else - and yet we conceded 3 (from 5 shots)
It’s that frustration that some parts of the defensive game were pretty good but then we still end up making stupid mistakes or slack play.
We’re just not good enough at the moment to try to hold on. We needed to keep going at Swansea and get a 3rd or 4th, not just sit back and wait for the inevitable error

You must be new here?
So, is nobody doing a BFTG thread any more?

Makes Saturday massive now, not confident given our recent form and our leakiness at the back, although admit you are not going to be watertight when players are playing out of position. Yeah, Mbengue had a bad game but, let's be honest, he's not a wing back, so is it a shock?
West Brom, Norwich, Swansea and QPR are all sides that are better than us really, yes, a couple of bad performances but not that much of a surprise we've struggled in those games.
The big thing for me now is, if we can't play a certain way, then just change it. Yiadom is missing so we only have 2 senior CB's. Unless we decide to put someone like Clarke in, which I'm not completely against, let's not play 3 CB's if we don't have that availability. Go for a back 4 and then bring someone like Abrefa in at RB and then either Rahman or NGW at LB and we can build from there.
I see where Ince is coming from in a lot of his post-match press conference, although I don't believe we played well, we stuck at it and they didn't actually create too much. But they had far too much of the ball, relinquishing the ball so we are always under pressure and we never seemed to put them under any pressure. There is a reason why sides who play like that end up finishing down the bottom.

Unfortunately, I would say that they way we set up the amount our defence had to deal with a mistake was inevitable. It worked for 40 odd minutes, perfect game plan. Got them on the break but the writing was on the wall as soon as we didn't react after their first. We held out to HT where i thought we should have switched things up.
I think Ince naming a ridiculous bench did not help out. Saying we played well is a desperate attempt to rewrite history. We barely even played until we were losing.

Swansea casually passing it around looked boring but they didn't need to zip it between the lines - they strolled into our half with ease for 90 minutes.

I said beginning. I’d rather not.

I know you said “beginning” - that’s where I am too.

Yeah I know. Not great is it?

Classic Team Board. Expressing concern and doubts is not wetting the bed.
Especially as saying, we’ve got players to come back, completely ignores the fact that he’s not maximising the use of the players he’s got at the moment

I do think we could do with the World Cup break coming sooner rather than later so we can have a bit of a reset and start again in December with a fully fit squad and an opportunity to work on things for a few weeks as well, it would be ideal right about now.
If we do want to maximise what we've got, we've got to play to our strengths and play players where they are comfortable, which means changing it up at the moment or trusting a youngster or two which can be done.

I cant explain the frustration and borderline anger i had at the final whistle which carried on through the night till this morning. Ok, that might be an exaggeration but god was i peed off with what i watched last night.
We were absolutely awful. Leading up to our goal that was one of the worst first half performances i have seen for a long time and there has been many. How on earth we were 2 up was lets be honest, an utter joke. However, if you were like my mate who put on a fiver that we lost 3-2 at 28-1 in play then i am sure that softened the blow for him.
Just inviting pressure, sitting back from the get go. What has happened to the style of football that got us to such a great position. That decent press etc. Its almost like Ince has now got lost and doesnt know what to do with the players at his disposal. That bench was stronger than the first team.
And yet again, we go down and guess what, we come alive. Now that might be the normal reaction etc but least start the game like that.
Sarr and Hutchinson cant come back into this team quick enough. Going forward there is enough there but centre back pairing just does not cut it. Fornah, Loum, Hendrick needs another look too. Glimpses this season of absolute quality but too much tinkering and the flow of that midfield has been ripped apart.
Dreary me.

Trying to sleep on thoughts before commenting , still fuming, Ince's tactics of time wasting and sitting on the 2-0 lead were shocking and lamentable , add on the woeful substitutions and it was a true horror show
Ince's post match interview saying we played well defies belief !
Maybe it's the manger of the month award curse
If we lose Saturday and thus four on the trot the alarm bells will start ringing and we all know where that can lead to

Don't agree with your comments on Swansea.

With their big striker out they only had the little man Obafemi up top so had to make sure that when it came to playing the final ball it wasn't in the air.
This is the way they play anyway and they believe in it so going 2 down they kept doing what they do and we just let them do it.

If only one team wants to attack this is how a game is bound to pan out with them having a crazy 78% possession.
Unfortunately we are not strong enough defensively like Italian sides of old where teams are allowed to come on to you but, through application and aggression, faced an unbreakable barrier (something you would not say about this Reading side).
I do agree with others that Saturday's game is a good one against a side that really is enigmatic where the fans and the manager have no idea which Bristol City will turn up on the day.

It should be a competitive game with a big away following and hopefully we can stop Weimann from scoring and Nakhi Wells (another who always seems to score against us) stays on the bench.

I think Fornah and Hendrick could use rotating around a bit more, both played a lot of minutes this season and Ejaria is coming back to fitness again now and is probably ready for more first team action and might be able to offer us something different in the midfield.
I do think we need to get back to taking the game to the opposition and pressing some more because that's where we've got joy this season, putting teams under pressure. Slow starts have been a theme of this season in most games, but we need to take the game to the opposition in the first 20 minutes of a game. Meite and long could easily do the pressing for us up top with Ince as well and I'd imagine against a side like Bristol City (and, funnily enough, even Swansea who keep the ball well and are error prone) who leak goals we could see some joy.

Classic Millsy

More like
Bar the odd spell, we have been appalling for three games on the trot. We played well against Norwich, but didn’t actually think we were great against Huddersfield. Wigan was a good away win and an OK performance but Sunderland was even worse than the last three. When you play that badly in four of your last seven games, of course people have a right to be concerned
Especially, considering, this is the exact same manager that followed the exact same pattern in his last Championship job at Blackpool, starting well before seriously dropping off and being sacked. If he doesn’t change how we’re approaching games, the same thing will happen again to him
It bemuses me, from Stam to Gomes to Bowen to Paunovic and now to this that they each found success playing in a certain way and altering it for no real reason to negative effect

Agree with most of that but wouldn’t put much (if any) of the blame on Holmes and McIntyre. Granted, don’t think they’re the best partnership we’ll have, not quite commanding enough (although Holmes in particular has improved in that regard), but they’re being overworked
Same pattern as last year, we tried to point the finger of blame at Rafael, Moore, Southwood even, but the reality is if you allow the opposition time and time again the freedom of the pitch without engaging, cross after cross etc, then of course you’re going to concede more
Perhaps Sarr and Hutchinson may improve things but personally think there has to be an improvement in how we’re defending higher up the pitch before we point the finger of blame at the actual defence

We didn’t.
We could have played the right back at right back, our CBs (who I think you’re being incredibly harsh about) at CB, and either of our 2 left backs, at left back.

I agree, we didn't have to. I'm still also a bit baffled as to why we went with Hoilett at LB and two top class left backs on the bench . But he clearly doesn't trust a 442 with Holmes+TMac at CB against a decent side away.
I don't think I'm being harsh at all about the Holmes+TMac partnership - stats and history have shown how they're not there yet. Was it not for points deductions we'd have been in League One with them at the heart of defence. NOONE let in more goals than us last season. And this season is not much better with only TWO teams letting in more goals than us. Why do you think he's gone otu of his way to sign as many CBs as he can and is still looking for more?
No way he could risk 4 at the back it seems. Now I'm not saying I agree with him necessarily, but he clearly doesn't trust those two as CBs on their own, thus screwing up our defence last night. We've massively missed Hutch.
I'm pissed off about the effort and attitude though tbh, not to mention takign Meite off.

According to PInce the game plan worked, if they had defended any deeper they would have been in the car park.

Why is nobody talking about the stonewall penalty not given to us in injury time? One of the most despicable refereeing decisions go against us since similar at Millwall in 2017

For a time, it did. But we were constantly under pressure, their CB's were playing in our half the majority of the time they had the ball, sometimes even 30-35 yards from goal, that's how deep we were. It's too much pressure to sustain for 75% of the match.
We need to go back to putting some more pressure on the opposition from the front. Meite, Long and Ince are the attackers that are best suited to do this, although Joao is also capable of putting pressure on as well, Ejaria also from a midfield position.
Don't agree with Ince when he says we played well. I don't doubt we put a lot into the game, moving shape, concentration without the ball is difficult to do etc but when we had the ball, we couldn't keep hold of it and it's not as if Swansea swarmed us with an intense press from the front, we just turned the ball over so easily it was like we were purposely giving them it back.

The time wasting was clearly a part of the game plan they went out with as it started Minute 1, which, for me, is a fcuking horrendous way to approach a football match, and completely sets the wrong mentality for the players on the night.

Do wonder if Ince genuinely thinks we played well. Certainly a worry if so

What also annoys me is that when Carroll is on the pitch we are ONLY hoofing the ball up to him, or somewhere near where he might end up if he sprints and launches himself at the usual pretty wayward hoof. Now he may be bloody good in the air, but he is also a good footballer with a pretty deft touch and we are completely negating / ignoring that facet of his game.

Agree. Can't just be launching aimless balls into an area where you'd anticipate they'd be, that's what we did last night out of desperation of getting the ball in there, but it was the same against QPR as well. Not saying we shouldn't be playing to his strengths, but in Hoilett, Ince and NGW, we have some pretty accomplished crossers of the ball. Get them travelling down the left channel into a good area and swing balls in towards Carroll and Meite coming in from the RW and we are easily capable of overpowering opponents that way. But it can't just be hopeful 50 yard diagonal punts, the keeper was just collecting them with ease in injury time last night.

Still think he's been consistently our best centreback. Less good in the last couple but at fault for very little. Perfectly good enough.
We've struggled in the last three games in midfield and tactics, not at centreback.

You must be new here?
So, is nobody doing a BFTG thread any more?
People would much rather complain about who starts it than contribute to it, so no.

You must be new here?
So, is nobody doing a BFTG thread any more?
People would much rather complain about who starts it than contribute to it, so no.

So you have to search through the in game chat? That's a great plan

People would much rather complain about who starts it than contribute to it, so no.

So you have to search through the in game chat? That's a great plan
You could always try starting one.

Good point, well made. Most obvious penalty ever. Taken right out.

People would much rather complain about who starts it than contribute to it, so no.

So you have to search through the in game chat? That's a great plan

Yes it's bollocks. I thought we'd started it up again, but tbf it shouldn't fall to Ian all the time to do, even though I appreciate the detail he puts into it. Screw it, I'll do an Aunt Sally.